Oletimer

Maybe this is your first ALPA contract.

If you aren't familiar you may want to get a surfboard and learn how and when and the why-for's of catching a wave. Timing and preparation come together and when they do that equates to opportunity.

The wave may be passing us by. There goes your opportunity.

On the other hand, if the MEC brings the pilots along and gets them ready, the pilots can help apply leverage.

Perhaps you don't see the obvious. The answers to those questions should likely be repeated over and over again and via various communications methods. If you want to bring the pilots with you, you need to engage them, and do it early and often, and via various methods. It can't hurt now can it? The big question is this: why not do it? Why not go the extra mile and get the pilots fully engaged? Do we not want the leverage?

Grumble

So am I getting a pony or what?

Big Perm

Respect the pony.

Regularguy

I get a kick out of this thread and all the others which say things like, “this is our best opportunity ever for getting an improvement in our contract.” Even the Delta pilots are saying the same thing.

Not to bust anyone’s bubble, but do you really think Kirby and all the other top corporate people are just going to give a pay and benefits increase out because the profits are good?

The only way they will settle quickly is when they have to. What’s the incentive for management to settle? In UAL’s case Kirby has made only one subject worth it and you all have said, “NO WAY!”

Keep flying all those premium trips, bragging on line about your W2s and whine a bit about how reserve sucks, that strategy has proven proven very successful. Okay maybe not so much.

Eventually, without some compromise on ALPA’s part, it will take the real threat of a legal withdrawal of service to get a new contract.

sailingfun

A legal withdrawal of service at any of the major airlines has about a 1 in a million chance of happening under a Trump administration. I am saying there is a chance! Not much of one however!

Floyd

Compromise? Me, myself, and I can live with this contract for a long long time and will vote no on any increase in the number of RJs at the regional level. Is there an RJ problem or lack of a 90-110 seat jet problem?

Itsajob

I don’t want to start a political drift, but Trump is no different than any other administration when it comes to a major airline strike. I agree that the odds of being released into self help are slim, but that has more to do with the size that the big three have become and the disruption to the economy that a strike could cause.

DashTrash

Exactly ^^^^

No Presidential Administration will allow any of the Big 3 or SWA to strike. It’s a tool that is available on paper, but not in reality.

Regularguy

Floyd I think you get my drift, you will not get a contract until management is forced to and that normally means economic reasons.

Wasn't it great that our last contract and pay raise was such a good one. It is obvious you and many others have no real reason to get a new one and Kirby knows that.


These negotiations may set a record for length from amendable date here at UAL.

Until there is an AIP enjoy.

SquawkIdent

Currently, I think yes. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but here's what I think his strategy looks like:

1. Offer the union early openers, with the express goal achieving an on-time contract (carrot). Both sides sign the legally-binding Negotiating Protocol Agreement. There's no penalty or negative consequence if the goal of an on-time contract is not achieved.
2. As a condition of early openers, include in the NPA a virtual gag order on the Union, hampering their ability to say much of anything about negotiations, and certainly nothing negative.
3. Appear reasonable by making slow progress on key sections of the contract (sections 5 and 20). Negotiations take time. The amendable date passes and we don't have an agreement. Get Sections 5 and 20 wrapped up six months or so after the amendable date.

4. Demand concessions in Section 1 before any of the economic sections (3, 22 and 24) can be addressed.
5. Appear reasonable by doing a month (or whatever) of Interest-Based Bargaining on Section 1. Kill time during the summer and enjoy the fact that this month of IBB has no ramifications on negotiations and nobody can talk about it.
6. Wait for the predictable stalemate to happen:
7. Sit back and enjoy the silence while negotiations stagnate. If the union starts to saber-rattle or talk about Section 1, accuse them of violating the terms of the NPA or IBB.

8. When the NMB finally gets involved, point to the progress you made on Section 5 and 20 as evidence of your bona fides.

9. Slow-walk through several more years of mediation.

The good news is that we have time on our side. I'm happy to wait for the right agreement, though I suspect it's going to be quite a while.