737 MAX grounded
03-22-2019, 08:20 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
I hope that anyone that is found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing is prosecuted and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law, up to and including man slaughter or murder (if applicable). They should then be extradited to the parent countries for the airlines that have crashed and be prosecuted and sentenced under their laws. Furthermore, any convicted persons should be stripped of their wealth and that money should be pooled to help the families that were affected, the airlines that were affected, and pain and suffering.
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
03-22-2019, 12:58 PM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 501
I hope that anyone that is found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing is prosecuted and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law, up to and including man slaughter or murder (if applicable). They should then be extradited to the parent countries for the airlines that have crashed and be prosecuted and sentenced under their laws. Furthermore, any convicted persons should be stripped of their wealth and that money should be pooled to help the families that were affected, the airlines that were affected, and pain and suffering.
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
03-22-2019, 01:16 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,871
03-22-2019, 01:59 PM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
I hope that anyone that is found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing is prosecuted and sentenced to the fullest extent of the law, up to and including man slaughter or murder (if applicable). They should then be extradited to the parent countries for the airlines that have crashed and be prosecuted and sentenced under their laws. Furthermore, any convicted persons should be stripped of their wealth and that money should be pooled to help the families that were affected, the airlines that were affected, and pain and suffering.
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
A message needs to be sent!!! This corruption needs to have accountability!!!
Careful, this is a slippery slope.
03-22-2019, 02:27 PM
#115
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
What is 'slippery' about anyone that is found guilty of any criminal wrongdoing?
I totally agree that IF it comes out that people were paid off to look the other way, or sign stuff off that they knew was questionable, they should be held accountable.
Motch
I totally agree that IF it comes out that people were paid off to look the other way, or sign stuff off that they knew was questionable, they should be held accountable.
Motch
03-22-2019, 02:53 PM
#116
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
That is where intent comes into play. If someone drives a car into a crowd of people or uses a firearm to murder someone, that was not the intended use of the product and the manufacturer shouldn’t be held liable. If Boeing knew that there was a major flaw with their product and knew that an accident was likely, they would be in deep legal doo doo. If they didn’t realize that there was a flaw or if they felt that the issue was minor and could not lead to an accident then they won’t. The actual issue will be discovered, corrected, and the Max will go on until someone makes a modern clean sheet design to replace the outdated 320 series, and the Jurassic 737.
03-22-2019, 03:19 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 579
That is where intent comes into play. If someone drives a car into a crowd of people or uses a firearm to murder someone, that was not the intended use of the product and the manufacturer shouldn’t be held liable. If Boeing knew that there was a major flaw with their product and knew that an accident was likely, they would be in deep legal doo doo. If they didn’t realize that there was a flaw or if they felt that the issue was minor and could not lead to an accident then they won’t. The actual issue will be discovered, corrected, and the Max will go on until someone makes a modern clean sheet design to replace the outdated 320 series, and the Jurassic 737.
03-22-2019, 04:22 PM
#118
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
If there is proof that Boeing hid a problem that they knew could put airplanes into the ground they better get out their chest waders because they’re in deep poo. On the other hand if they considered it a minor fault that any basically trained crew would easily handle, then not. Im not trying to belittle the crews who crashed or argue their level of training. I’m just saying that the burden of proof against Boeing will be high and have to show willful intent and that this outcome was known at the time.
03-22-2019, 08:31 PM
#119
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Salmon-37 FO
Posts: 91
So because Boeing put a rudimentary and obsolete anti-stall system in a new plane that has next to no automation to begin with we’ve reached the tipping point of automation? The only reason MCAS exists is because Boeing was allowed to self-certify the 737 MAX. They were allowed to self-certify because they lobbied Congress years ago and we all know how that works. They used the cheapest solution they could come up with that has no fault indication, no fail-safes, and no redundancy. To top it off nobody even knew about it prior to Lion Air. This isn’t a story about the tipping point of automation. It’s about designing planes in a negligent way to save a buck.
MCAS exists because the FAA asked Boeing to do something. A Seattle Times article said the FAA asked Boeing for more dynamic stability approaching a stall due to quick pitch up tendency the MAX has and MCAS is what Boeing came up with.
And how does the MAX have next to no automation? VNAV, auto-throttles, autopilot, FMC don’t count?
03-22-2019, 08:36 PM
#120
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Salmon-37 FO
Posts: 91
.....
United Airlines, which ordered 137 of the planes and has received 14, did not select the indicators or the disagree light. A United spokesman said the airline does not include the features because its pilots use other data to fly the plane.”
Curious from 737 pilots what this other data was/is to know your AOA sensors are not working correctly? Apparently the NGs have the disagree light but not the MAX at UA?
Full article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/b...es-charge.html
United Airlines, which ordered 137 of the planes and has received 14, did not select the indicators or the disagree light. A United spokesman said the airline does not include the features because its pilots use other data to fly the plane.”
Curious from 737 pilots what this other data was/is to know your AOA sensors are not working correctly? Apparently the NGs have the disagree light but not the MAX at UA?
Full article
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/b...es-charge.html
My UAL Flight Manual (combination NG/MAX) shows the AOA DISAGREE option (message on PFD) is installed and doesn’t differentiate between what aircraft it is on. AOA Instrument is not installed.
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