High on sky

How many people was that really though? Probably not a large number. Easily solved with saying no upgrades until X amount of time with the company or 1000 hours 121, whichever comes first. But again, I don’t think it would even affect more than a handful of people. Vast majority of people getting hired at least have a few hundred hours of 121 time.

Blackhawk

In that case it was a few as we are talking about the MD-88 and the number of junior pilots able to hold it was few. Throw in a smaller airplane at a lower pay rate, say a 175, and you will may have junior pilots actually forced into the left seat as is happening now with some regionals especially at LGA. So it might well be more than just a handful.

da42pilot

Was delta forcing people to the left seat?

horrido27

One way to (kinda) solve it is to make 12th yr Capt pay for the lowest pay category aircraft $1 more than 12th yr Widebody FO. Then you probably wouldn't have to worry about newhire Captains/FO's taking these things into LGA!

However, therein lies the problem... max Capt Pay for these type of aircraft is roughly $120 an hour (at the Regional).. with lower B fund contribution and other lower benefits. Big pay disparity if we bring them over even using the CRJ900 rates...
About $300 an hour for the cockpit crew, based on 2019 rates (2yr Capt and 1st yr FO).

Hell of a mess.

Motch

Blackhawk

No they were not, but that was a MD-88. My point is that if we are talking about something smaller and paying less than a MD it might come down to that if minimums are imposed (such as 1000 hours 121 time). I know my brother is a senior wide body FO at a legacy carrier and his view is the same as many. He won’t bid out of his seat before he retires. Narrow body captain would be a pay cut and too much work. LGA and DCA in the winter? No thanks.
Heck, I know a few senior Delta MD FOs who did not bid for captain. They are making good money and set their schedule as FOs.
Bringing all the regional flying under a legacy carrier would bring the issues of that flying with it. Also, it would greatly dilute if not eliminate the profit bonuses. After all, some of that profit is gained by subcontracting the flying to regionals. Look at Endeavor. Their pilots and FAs are not eligible for the DAL bonuses even though their lower payrates contribute to the DAL profit.

Blackhawk

I agree. It’s not as cut and dry and some claim it is.

The majors never really had to institute upgrade minimums. Upgrade times were so long that they were irrelevant. My understanding is that DAL was quite concerned when they suddenly had six month MD-88 LGA awards to pilots minimal 121 time and no time operating in/out of NYC much less in the winter. Of course, the MD leaving NYC alleviated that, I believe. Introduce a bunch of smaller narrow bodies and it might be an issue and they might introduce minimum upgrade times.
If this occurs you may see what is happening at regionals- DEC's or "Direct Entry Captains". They have the experience of operating this equipment in those environments. The downside for these DEC's is that they are looking at a long time on reserve at junior bases. By the time someone with zero 121 time meets the minimums they are senior enough to avoid being displaced to the left seat and can put off doing so until they can hold a good schedule. When they do this they bump back the DEC's who therefore stay on reserve.

Terrain Inop

A recent LOA to the UPA already addresses minimum time on property and minimum UAL flight time needed to upgrade.

Dave Fitzgerald

Remember, scope is but one variable to the equasion. Cost, seating capacity, GW all figure into it.

Other factors that will decide whether mainline buys and flies RJ's, as mentioned before, slot and runway capacity. But as I've said before, gate space is an increasing problem. Out of gates in SFO, out of gates in EWR, Denver is building more gates....

Runway capacity and gate space will be increasingly become larger factors to upgage the entire RJ fleet.

da42pilot

Network carriers need feed. The greater the number of connections in a network, the higher the network’s value. This is what drives profit at United, Delta and American. Scott Kirby has alluded to this several times.

The number of connecting points along with a reasonable number of well timed frequencies that allow for connections is essential.

da42pilot

I had a different article I mind discussing what I posted above, but it has now been placed behind a paywall. The article below is pretty good, though...

http://fortune.com/2018/01/29/scott-kirby-united-ceo-lower-airfare/