horrido27

And.. to follow up on something with regards to pay.

Most pilots don't/wont do this but they really should.

How much did you earn last year? Your W-2 wages.
Then, how much extra did you earn? Per Diem, BFund, Profit Sharing.

Now.. how may hours did you ACTUALLY fly?
Not talking Credit hours, talking Flying hours.

Last couple of years I've averaged 7xx-8xx hrs for the year flying.. and 12xx-13xx hrs credit.
THAT is what is important.

Ya just can't look at a W-2 without having more info.
How about when we cancel overseas and deadhead home in BF.
How about when we get middle seat deadhead pay.
How about when we get BF for annual training to/from TK.
How about crew meals.
How about all the other little things that have a monetary value to them?

Personally, I don't want my union spending ALOT of cash/time/negotiating capital on newhire/1st year pay issues.
That should be on the company to attract the best candidates.
Our union should work on what happens to the individual AFTER they get off probation, and have proven themselves to both the company & the union.

My opinion though I imagine it will upset some of the newhires/future newhires! lol

Always
Motch

cadetdrivr

Great points, Motch.

Also, the big one missing from your examples is vacation.

For example, I had five weeks of vacation last year and each week translated to about 30 hours of credit due to MPG. (I bid low credit each vacation month in PBS.)

That's about 150 hours of credit for the year without even looking at the inside of a cockpit.

Tumbleweed11

As a new hire, I completely agree with this statement. Those free beers that we get also have a monetary value!

Buck Rogers

Keep thumping your chests, I'm sure you believe what you're saying. I am equally sure that any Delta new hire thinks they have landing their dream job.

Sorry to say, my overwhelming reason fo chiming in was to better the profession for all...you at UAL and us at Delta, as well as AAL. Unfortunately, it turned into a pizzing contest.... but expected. The forums never cease to amaze me

BTW, Motch...I feel pretty certain Delta nor UAL will have problems attracting highly qualified pilots. Additionally...WTF has to prove themselves...talk percentages...pilots are pilots...FA's have a diff metric as do baggage crushes. Very few pilots leave, and very few are fired for cause

horrido27

As a Delta pilot, you and your group have negotiated certain benefits that YOU have decided are important for YOUR group.
As a United Pilot, we (I) have decided in a different direction that we will go.

You guys give a PS payout to your 1st year pilots.. we don't. So be it.
I believe the benefits we do give are superior or at least equal to yours. You disagree.
Your right.

Again, the newhire in the January classes at Delta could make up to 16K versues 0K for ours. [Based on what percentage of PS and 1st year salary?]
You win.
How about the newhire in the Jun classes?
How about the newhire in the Oct classes?

How much will your newhires pay for hotel and transportation?
How much will your newhires make while sitting in the middle seat on a deadhead while on reserve?
Hell, what are your reserve rules vs. ours with regard to pay and QoL?

We can go back and forth all day long.
At the end of the day, IF the union pushes for PS for 1st year pilots, that money has to come out of some bucket.
(And as I think about it, not sure what the rules are for all the other employee groups- rampers, gate agents, F/A;s)
Personally, I think that while it kinda sucks that a Jan 2020 newhire will not see PS till Feb 2022.. there are alot of other things that suck too. It's called 'Life'.

As far as 'proving' themselves.. um. We ALL have to prove ourselves constantly in life. Not sure what world you live in.
At U, we have fired a handful of probie pilots in the past few years. Cell phone usage has been the major reason (from what I know).
So YES.. I do believe that a Probationary pilot (1st year) has to 'prove' themselves.
Great to hear that they don't over at big D.

These threads are GREAT for the potential newhire.. read about the pro's and con's of each airline.
Then make your wish list..
If you're extremely lucky, you'll get hired by your top choice and timing will be great and you'll have a fortunate career.
However...
If you're like the rest of us-
You'll get hired by ONE of the airlines you apply for, maybe not number 1 or even 2, and then you'll have to hope things stay good until the next downturn so that you have enough buffer below you and where the music stops (musical chair reference for the younger crowd).
Hopefully your airline fights to keep flying inhouse and have both narrowbody and widebody flying.. International and domestic.. with a bunch of bases around the country.

At the end of the day, there is NO way of knowing who will have a better career, both financially and Quality of Life- a newhire at Delta hired in Jan 2020 or a newhire at United.
But I would bet that they BOTH will have decent careers.

Always
Motch