The Hits Just Keep on Coming
04-16-2018, 05:53 AM
#51
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
If you think that's what caused the demise of EAL, there is a hole in your historical airline knowledge base big enough to fly an L1011 through. At least according to everything I have read. I was paying the EAL strike assessment at the time and ravenously reading ......! 
A senior captain at Eastern told me in '79 or 80 that " we won't be here 10 years". He wasn't far off.
04-16-2018, 09:50 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,173
I’ve never heard of anyone with reasonable concerns being pushed into taking an airplane, I’ve called the FODM on a few occasions and received nothing but great help and feedback. I have heard guys refusing an airplane for the ACARS or other trivial items being inop, IMHO that warrants a conference call.....
If you feel the plane is not safe to go, refuse it. Now, I am always open to other input and ideas, MX, F/O, dispatcher. Many times, I have been the one advocating to go, with a reasoned response when dispatch has waivered.
Having to fill out an IOR, and or call the FODM to refuse a plane is defacto pressure to accept a substandard plane. An inop ACARS on a domestic VFR day might be trivial to some, but international, to FRA with slippery runways, and required landing performance data, redispatch, ETOPS considerations? It'd be on my required list.
So, to summarize, be a pilot, be proactive. Don't let an inexperienced dispatcher or FODM pressure you into anything. That's why you get the big bucks.
04-16-2018, 10:23 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 511
Why in the world would you call the FODM for an aircraft refusal? When has the FODM ever done something for you, you couldn't handle yourself? With the possible exception of getting that denied middle DH seat.
If you feel the plane is not safe to go, refuse it. Now, I am always open to other input and ideas, MX, F/O, dispatcher. Many times, I have been the one advocating to go, with a reasoned response when dispatch has waivered.
Having to fill out an IOR, and or call the FODM to refuse a plane is defacto pressure to accept a substandard plane. An inop ACARS on a domestic VFR day might be trivial to some, but international, to FRA with slippery runways, and required landing performance data, redispatch, ETOPS considerations? It'd be on my required list.
So, to summarize, be a pilot, be proactive. Don't let an inexperienced dispatcher or FODM pressure you into anything. That's why you get the big bucks.
If you feel the plane is not safe to go, refuse it. Now, I am always open to other input and ideas, MX, F/O, dispatcher. Many times, I have been the one advocating to go, with a reasoned response when dispatch has waivered.
Having to fill out an IOR, and or call the FODM to refuse a plane is defacto pressure to accept a substandard plane. An inop ACARS on a domestic VFR day might be trivial to some, but international, to FRA with slippery runways, and required landing performance data, redispatch, ETOPS considerations? It'd be on my required list.
So, to summarize, be a pilot, be proactive. Don't let an inexperienced dispatcher or FODM pressure you into anything. That's why you get the big bucks.
Landing data can be requested from the dispatcher prior to departure and also available in the FM, FYI.
04-16-2018, 10:35 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Not sure... Sounds odd, unless it's a new Captain and he/she has never had to pull the trigger on something like that. Maybe just inexperience? Otherwise like you say, it's the Captain's decision at the end of the day, and the Captain may be asked to explain that decision to someone, but most certainly it won't be the FODM.
04-16-2018, 11:29 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
While I appreciate all his supposed smarts and business acumen, that cake is far from baked. It may flop. And when one considers the opinions of our bros at American/USAir, coupled with his overt and flimsy push to add RJ's here, it makes your claim even more dubious. He's preaching to a wide audience and it doesn't end with just us. I hope he doesn't think we're that gullible.
While I understand and appreciate his aim, to boil it down, he's got the big wally for the little jet in order to fill the banks. And as we all know, the RJ has done as much harm to the mainline end the profession as Lorena did to John's junk. Let's revisit this topic in say, five years. Perhaps ten. History has a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
While I understand and appreciate his aim, to boil it down, he's got the big wally for the little jet in order to fill the banks. And as we all know, the RJ has done as much harm to the mainline end the profession as Lorena did to John's junk. Let's revisit this topic in say, five years. Perhaps ten. History has a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff.
You- Sir NEED to be a writer. Lorena . . . forgot all about her . . .now that there is one heck of a funny allegory
04-16-2018, 11:49 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
I’ve never heard of anyone with reasonable concerns being pushed into taking an airplane, I’ve called the FODM on a few occasions and received nothing but great help and feedback. I have heard guys refusing an airplane for the ACARS or other trivial items being inop, IMHO that warrants a conference call.....
Why would one refusal warrent a conference call when others would not?
04-16-2018, 02:28 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,785
We'll see if he can compete with DAL, but as United employees he has already been a win when you consider what the Boston Consulting folks were proposing discontinuing IAD, DEN and LAX as hubs. He also wants to grow DEN, ORD & IAH. It is our job to just say no on scope relaxation.
04-16-2018, 03:12 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 315
The level of bellyaching regarding refusing a jet never ceases to amuse me. Nobody will ever question your decision here. And if they do, so freaking what? You're the Captain, do the right thing.
The IOR requirement and the FODM/Dispatcher briefing is not some management tool to discourage you. If you bow to imaginary outside pressure over safety of flight, you're not earning your Captain's paycheck.
The IOR requirement and the FODM/Dispatcher briefing is not some management tool to discourage you. If you bow to imaginary outside pressure over safety of flight, you're not earning your Captain's paycheck.
04-16-2018, 04:47 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
The level of bellyaching regarding refusing a jet never ceases to amuse me. Nobody will ever question your decision here. And if they do, so freaking what? You're the Captain, do the right thing.
The IOR requirement and the FODM/Dispatcher briefing is not some management tool to discourage you. If you bow to imaginary outside pressure over safety of flight, you're not earning your Captain's paycheck.
The IOR requirement and the FODM/Dispatcher briefing is not some management tool to discourage you. If you bow to imaginary outside pressure over safety of flight, you're not earning your Captain's paycheck.
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