CHAIRMAN

Guess you have never been furloughed ?

guppie

Wow. Really?
1. My old airline (Part 121) farmed out the entire training department to Flight Safety.

2. American Airlines instructors are not on the seniority list.

3. United Airlines had non seniority list instructors prior to and during the 1985 strike.

To be clear, I am NOT advocating for any change in the status quo of having United Airlines pilots on the seniority list conduct our training. We would be fools to even consider it.

guppie

Nope. But I saw 2172 get furloughed with that beautiful 'manpower positive' Contract 2000 we had. Those rules didn't help them. Meanwhile, lean carriers didn't furlough near as many, or any at all. That is my point. Of course you contractually kill those provisions (drop below min days, fly over vacation) when ANYBODY is on furlough.

89Pistons

I was one of those 2172. I know that some of those prior contract provisions required many of us to get hired with the block hours being flown in the first place.

As for the other carriers, how many of them retired every single one of their DC-10s, 747-200s, 727s, and 737-200's within the span of a couple of months? United was the only one to retire that many fleets in such a short period of time.

You're out of your mind to blame the furloughs on the contract. In fact the furloughs got as high as they did because the contract wasn't protected. It wasn't taken away. It was given away. And when we were done giving they came and took the rest.

One of the things that upsets me the most is that the No Furlough Clause wasn't defended. Maybe it wouldn't last through court but don't throw your hands up and give it away like it was.

Lastly, many say the term manpower positive including myself. The correct term should be manpower neutral. The goal should be to stay away from negative.

89Pistons

Another clue might be the fleets they offered this on. They're offering this to line pilots on every fleet except the Airbus. Why would that be? The Airbus is the only fleet that isn't allowed to have the PI do seat support while running the panel. Can't do it in the 320 sims. You can in the fleets they offered this May deal on.

I think they wan't to use line pilots to practice and get proficient on having one PI do seat support while running the sim.

CHAIRMAN

FTM says otherwise. 320 has no new instructors in training right now. Guys it’s a scope issue if you read section 23.

89Pistons

I agree that it's a scope issue. But trying to find the angle. I mentioned the Airbus because I think those are the only simulators you can't stop the sim in from one of the flying seats. I could be wrong but I have heard that before. The Boeing simulators have a procedure that allows the sim to be stopped form a control seat.

CHAIRMAN

Some sims have remotes but even on freeze sim is on motion and being up risks injury. 320 it behind the captain seat forward of the IOS

89Pistons

Thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot of sense.

TCASTESTOK

By TK do you mean Turkish Airlines is using UA pilots as mock students?