Aquaticus

What is the cost to operate another 737-700 when you already have a fleet of them, everyone is trained, and it is a known quantity vs a plane that will take years at only a 14% fuel savings to recoup its more expensive purchase price. I don't know the real purchase price numbers but I have heard the break even time was around 5 years. After 5 years we would still have an airplane that is cheaper than our hundreds of RJ's, more comfortable, and again isn't costing us as a new fleet type. If costs were important we wouldn't be justifying 50 seat rj's who have the most expensive CASM in our fleet. The 100 seaters are glorified RJ's and these "long skinny" domestic routes that the C series is marketing with is pretty hard to make profitable. The low cost guys have hundreds of planes on order and that long skinny route at a legacy is their next destination with an airbus crammed to the gills with seats.

I think the 100 seater is a riddle kids dream. Keep it simple and keep it airbus and boeing. Limit the rj nonsense to routes that cannot possibly be upgauged.

Flytolive

LCCs are quite different from network carriers and therefore need quite different fleets.

Half wing

“We haven't had increased utilization of aircraft. If we did, block hours and pilot staffing would go up”

Zoomie,

We have had/are having increased utilization in aircraft. In non-peak months. Pilot staffing doesn’t go up unless peak period pilot block hours goes up. Source: March 16th crew resources update.

webecheck

Have you done the math on 14% fuel savings for 61 aircraft over 25 yrs? The number is huge. A foolish decision imo is buying cheaper less efficient old design airplanes because oil is at the time so low the fuel savings doesn’t justify the higher purchase prices. Additionally, with the Ute rate increase does anyone really know if we actually needed all those 61 700s right now? I don’t know that answer, but maybe people are talking about destinations we can’t serve because we deferred 61 jets.

I assume most people on legacy lists who lived through the worst times would like to limit how bad the low is during the tough times. Everyone complains about airline cycles and always repeating, etc. I think deferring the 700s was a reasonable move to break that cycle, or at the very least limit the pain when times get bad.

The 100 seaters are going to happen imo. No, I’m not a riddle kid. The battle I believe will be over the company wanting to keep our contract rates for it where they are vs our MEC trying to match deltas.

757Driver

So using your logic Delta should be losing there a$$ with all their "less efficient, old" aircraft. Wonder how that's turning out for them?

Scott Stoops

I tend to agree at least in part with the above. That said, I see a couple of plays on scope that the company might have in mind that don't only or necessarily involve changing the ratios (which I see no chance in passing this pilot group) or increasing the seat count/size. I will say that I am against any negative changes to scope. I also see very little chance of any negative changes making it past the NC/MEC or passing in an agreement. The list below is simply what I would consider were I in management's shoes.

1. Weight increase on the existing scoped airplanes. This would allow the next gen of "rj" to be flown.

2. Attempt to include the 737-7 Max in the equation which allowed more 76 seaters. Might also include an additional max order.

3. Attempt to trade higher pay rates and a SNB order for change in the ratios.

I think it is much more likely that 1 or 2 are the end game positions the company is likely targeting. I see neither garnering approval at the NC/MEC level.

Flytolive

No, Delta didn't buy 65 brand new "old design" airplanes. They bought mid-life "old design" 717s just like United is buying up to 50 mid-life "old design" A319s. Again, look at the 25 year life span of an airliner and the wisdom of those decisions becomes apparent.

webecheck

There are few people I can't stand on this forum, but you are definitely one of them. You do zero analysis and just sling negativity ALL THE TIME. I could respond but you'll never get it anyway, and likely don't care to.

757Driver

I'm crushed.

Guess deflection is your way of saying that you're wrong so in actuality, you did answer. Can we rustle up a couple of pair of rose colored lenses for our highly uniformed friends please?

757Driver

Since you don't really know how much we we're getting the -700's for, your comment is simply conjecture.