Now United looking at CSeries & E2
03-09-2018, 03:34 AM
#52
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
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Your priorities are dubious. The important thing is that if United buys the C-series it doesn’t say Express on the side. We got those sub par CS-100 rates when the possibility of taking delivery of it was years away. I agree with you our pay and hiring/upgrade numbers would have looked a lot better if we had taken the 65 737-700’s but that ship has sailed. Yeah we need better rates for the C-series but I’m not going to pout and stomp my feet at the thought of us getting the C-series. I’m just going to advocate we get the rates up for them. I’d love to know what you think we should be paid to fly the CS-100 here and even the 175-E2 but that would be negotiating in public. My guess is our numbers would be about the same.
03-24-2018, 09:32 AM
#53
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The deal DL got on their CSeries is making the economic case for 100 seaters even worse. They’ve locked in a very low cost of ownership for the life of their frames.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
03-24-2018, 10:17 AM
#54
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The deal DL got on their CSeries is making the economic case for 100 seaters even worse. They’ve locked in a very low cost of ownership for the life of their frames.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
03-24-2018, 10:26 AM
#55
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
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Time will tell, but I think management missed the boat on this one. Bombardier was desperate, we declined, Delta swooped in. The fact that bombardier offered to build a CSeries "light" for us and we still declined shows UAL management was never truly interested in the CSeries.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-05-18/bombardier-says-it-offered-c-series-lite-jet-in-united-talks
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-05-18/bombardier-says-it-offered-c-series-lite-jet-in-united-talks
03-24-2018, 10:37 AM
#56
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Posts: 559
The 717s are also in a unique situation. Fairly new and modern, but an orphan aircraft with no market for it means cheap ownership costs.
I think a CSeries Lite would have been nothing but something akin to a E175SC....i.e. just a paperwork change that fools nobody.
I think a CSeries Lite would have been nothing but something akin to a E175SC....i.e. just a paperwork change that fools nobody.
03-24-2018, 10:43 AM
#57
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The deal DL got on their CSeries is making the economic case for 100 seaters even worse. They’ve locked in a very low cost of ownership for the life of their frames.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
Unless Canada extends the same deal to United, or Embraer extends a similar deal, it’s gonna be tough competing with DL on that front.
03-24-2018, 11:03 AM
#58
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Time will tell, but I think management missed the boat on this one. Bombardier was desperate, we declined, Delta swooped in. The fact that bombardier offered to build a CSeries "light" for us and we still declined shows UAL management was never truly interested in the CSeries.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...n-united-talks
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...n-united-talks
The answer's in there about why UAL did not buy the airplane.
"Mitchell’s comments provided a glimpse of the negotiations behind aircraft sales, which are under a microscope because of the trade complaint. United eventually agreed to buy 65 heavily discounted Boeing 737-700 jets after considering the C Series and an aircraft made by Brazil’s Embraer SA. Later in 2016, the airline converted most of the order to the larger 737 Max without assigning a delivery date, after changing its fleet strategy for domestic flying.
“In the early stages of our discussions, United told us the CS100 was too big for its needs,” Mitchell said in his prepared remarks. “In response, we offered a smaller version, the CS100 Lite. Our competition throughout was the even smaller Embraer 190. At the very end, however, Boeing swooped in and offered United a deal too good to refuse -- not on a 100-seat aircraft, but on larger 737-700s that do not compete with the CS100.”"
Never forget, this isn't about flying airplanes or providing the "best" product for the market. It's about deals and making money for the parties involved.
Pilots fly airplanes, management sells something (I'm never really sure what that is).
03-24-2018, 11:46 AM
#59
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
With scope, Kirby is selling a S@@t sandwich. He is trying to tell you how it is really gonna be good for you. He fully expects us to buy it cause we have, for years, eaten S@@t sandwiches. That really is all that he has to say. Anything else is just salesmanship.
03-25-2018, 03:09 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
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