Originally Posted by RJSAviator76

I wanted either UAL or SWA simply because both have a domicile where I live. I wasn't successful with Hogan, and SWA hired me a couple months later, so here I am.

I was wondering during my first year whether to keep my application at UAL active and retake Hogan. I chose not to for the following reasons:

1) I was already based where I was living, so that became a wash.

2) I've made it a point to learn to maximize my income at Southwest considering I live in base and can work out pretty nicely. In 2017, as a part first year and partly second year FO, I worked 185 days total in 2017 (by choice), and my W-2 was 170k. I managed to max out my 401k, with NEC contribution and profit sharing, I reached 415c limits, which for the current mil folks means I reached the IRS defined maximum allowable retirement contribution of $54,000 for 2017, and I'm getting an excess check in a couple of weeks.

3) I don't really care about flying a heavy or "seeing the world" consider I've flown literally all over the world in a corporate setting beforehand so that's not something I really care much about.

4) One of the things I was concerned with at Southwest was the relative lack of retirements when compared to the legacies. After almost 2 years on the property here, I'm in the mid 80's percentage-wise on the master seniority list. Upgrades are right at 60-61%. Based on projected hiring, mandatory retirements and not accounting for early-outs, I'd say my soonest upgrade will be right at 6 years on the property, or 4 years from now assuming the current trend continues and no major economic downturns.

5) Some of the other considerations... Southwest has the strongest balance sheet in the industry (can be a worry item actually), does not outsource flying, and has been historically profitable through some of the worst financial rollercoasters that plagued the airline industry.

When it's all said and done, my advice is go to the first one that hires you, and if you have a choice, live in base. It's a completely different job if you do for the better.

Originally Posted by oldmako

Wha? Man, I fly all the way to Beijing JUST TO BUY white New Balance shoes, crappy knock-off golf shirts, and cell phone holsters!!

What else would I wear on an overnight???

Originally Posted by terminal

It’s a bit naive to think that SWA wouldn’t furlough either. The further management becomes removed from Herb, the more likely it becomes.
That being said if the choice is commuting vs non-commuting, always go with not commuting. If you’re not commuting, don’t care about upgrade times or flying to Europe, and are willing to hustle, SWA is a great place.
There are several quality of life items that UA has that SWA does not, but if you live in base and work it so you only do turns and two day trips, then those QOL items become a moot point.
(And by hustle, I don’t necessarily mean work every day, I mean work the system to your advantage -a lot of TTGA, ELITT, finagling etc)

All things being equal though? I would choose a legacy over SWA any day of the week....mainly because of QOL items (hotels, meals, paid parking, reserve rules, etc) the one thing SWA beats on is scheduling finagling.

A 737 UA w-hore won’t make as much money as an open time SWA w-hore , but at UA you don’t have to hustle to make more cash because you can just go to a bigger plane...
At SWA you cant make 20k a month working nine days in the right seat of a 777 either.

There’s always a tradefoff.

Originally Posted by suckit

I’m not naive. When Kim J decides to launch a nuke, or Some terrorist group decides to go after aviation again, or maybe just a good old fashioned recession, the Big 3 will furlough and go into survival mode. History shows the smaller airlines will take advantage of this and grow. What’s stopping a terrorist group from recruiting a 100 Dunkn Donuts employees to try and get hired as flight attendants in order to access airplanes via KCM. We’re sitting ducks and it’s only a matter of time. There are so many security loop holes in aviation. I think that it is you “Terminal”who is naive. Just sayin....what disturbs me the most about your post is that you list crew meals as a benefit, seriously? Besides, it sounds like you make 20k a month working 9 days....I’d hope you could afford to eat a little healthier! Something else to think about is that because Legacy carriers have multiple aircraft types, they can park an entire fleet overnight. We’ve done it!

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

SWA guy here. When the BOS dunkin line is 40 deep and you get on your plane for a four hour leg at 5am with no sustenance, you suddenly think crew meals would be a great thing to have in the contract.
I think both airlines are great, but a wise man once told me that driving to work is the ultimate tie breaker. I would much rather drive than fly a 787 one day, but that’s just me.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

In that case we ended up having one pilot do a crew food run and it worked out (barely). I would delay a flight with no issues for food, though, if that’s what you are asking.

Originally Posted by e6bpilot

I would much rather drive than fly a 787 one day, but that’s just me.

Originally Posted by webecheck

In my experience this is said by 3 types of people. Those hired by airlines who will never give them the chance, those that flew for crappy global cargo outfits, and those that are separating from the military thinking the legacy carrier long haul flying is the same as what they just got done doing.

I have met a vast number of people who sat right seat of the 747 and commuted until they retired the plane because of the lifestyle. In addition, I have only met one person who said they didn’t love the WB flying....and this dude was talking about aliens on the trip and how he does science experiments with crew meals so take that fwiw.

I see why guys get wrapped around the axle with the money equation, but it’s a fools discussion because you’re going to make lots of it at any legacy. Since this is a second career for most, seems to me the lifestyle is what one should decide on and chase that...but that’s just my opinion obviously because I don’t care about how much money is left in the bank when I die.