SWA or UAL?
03-04-2018, 08:44 PM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 299
Geez... you sure you're not recruiting for these folks?
Emirates Group Careers | Pilots
I mean where can you possibly go wrong....
- all widebody fleet flying all over the world (why wait 25+ years before you can get to be a flying pilot???)
- good pay (why starve your first year???)
- housing paid by the company including your monthly utilities! Who does that??!
- heavily subsidized education (or a big fat scholarship) for your kids
- chauffered to/from work in a nice, new car with your own driver. You can finally retire your 81 Honda.
- full medical and Company-provided clinic nearby to where you live, all for your convenience.
- direct entry captain position available if you're highly experienced Boeing captain. And if you're an FO... why wait? You'll be a widebody captain at a truly prestigious airline by the time you'd be able to be on reserve on one as an FO in the US.
- eye-candy female flight attendants who are actually trained in First Class service, have strict standards as to how to look, dress, speak, behave, even how to put make-up on, the type of makeup, etc. (if you're into male flight attendants, you may consider staying in the US)
- Max retirement age for those flight attendants is 42.
- confirmed Business class upgradeable to First Class when you actually go on vacation.
So on and so forth... there are a few minor annoyances with this job, but isn't that the case everywhere?
After all, it's about living like a rockstar, fly for a truly prestigious airline... why spend a lifetime banging around in clacked out MD88's, B-737's, A-320's and be a crusty old fart by the time you reach a widebody, actually get to fly it and see cool places? Why not now while you still can?
Emirates Group Careers | Pilots
I mean where can you possibly go wrong....
- all widebody fleet flying all over the world (why wait 25+ years before you can get to be a flying pilot???)
- good pay (why starve your first year???)
- housing paid by the company including your monthly utilities! Who does that??!
- heavily subsidized education (or a big fat scholarship) for your kids
- chauffered to/from work in a nice, new car with your own driver. You can finally retire your 81 Honda.
- full medical and Company-provided clinic nearby to where you live, all for your convenience.
- direct entry captain position available if you're highly experienced Boeing captain. And if you're an FO... why wait? You'll be a widebody captain at a truly prestigious airline by the time you'd be able to be on reserve on one as an FO in the US.
- eye-candy female flight attendants who are actually trained in First Class service, have strict standards as to how to look, dress, speak, behave, even how to put make-up on, the type of makeup, etc. (if you're into male flight attendants, you may consider staying in the US)
- Max retirement age for those flight attendants is 42.
- confirmed Business class upgradeable to First Class when you actually go on vacation.
So on and so forth... there are a few minor annoyances with this job, but isn't that the case everywhere?
After all, it's about living like a rockstar, fly for a truly prestigious airline... why spend a lifetime banging around in clacked out MD88's, B-737's, A-320's and be a crusty old fart by the time you reach a widebody, actually get to fly it and see cool places? Why not now while you still can?
03-04-2018, 11:21 PM
#132
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Position: Middle
Posts: 43
Does pay the same. That and you really don't "not fly" unless you want to. I've been to the sims unintentionally for landings 2-3 times in about 7 years. A couple of times I went non current so I could play the game of getting trips dropped with pay while I wait for my bounces.
BTW, though it's not my style, the guys that are playing the game with landing currency average about an extra month's pay a year. Or at least a month's worth of flying bought while waiting for class.
Here's a post from the 2017 earnings thread. Now before I get flamed for posting such things I am a firm believer in giving people in this profession data points so they can make informed decisions as to where they might want to try to hang their hat. Looking at numbers on APC doesn't show what the job is like at the various airlines. You need numbers and anecdotes from different positions on a seniority list to help make an informed choice.
I'm not senior, nor junior. No scams, games, etc, but this is what you can do as a joe blow line holder on WB FO positions:
1) Airline employer: UAL, about ~60-65% overall company seniority
2) Seat: FO, about ~70% in my BES
3) Equipment: 777
4) Years of Service with company: 12 yr
5) How many days you worked: 116*
6) How many overnights you had: I had two day trips, the rest had overnights. Most were 4day trips with a few 2day domestic trips, a couple 3day international and one 7day extravaganza which I traded to on purpose.
7) How many hours you blocked: 802
8) How many hours did you credit: 1235
9) Expected gross income: ~$279,500
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.):
10a) DC: ~$43,000
10b) PS: ~$30,500
10c) Etc: ~$6,600 for PerDiem and ~$1,500 or so for what I assume
to be on time perf and what not.
Total, more or less: ~$360k
*The details:
- I live local to my base.
- I bid reserve for the Dec bid period that is included in the 2017 pay to get Xmas off and didn't work a single day that month.
- Some of my trips have very late shows and early finishes (9pm starts and 5am finishes). Those can be considered days off to some, myself included. Including those days as days on increases my days worked by about 13 days. That being said, if those are considered days worked, then anyone who commutes in a day before or home the day after a trip should include those commuting days as work.
- Most of my flying is long haul international. We are on break for about 40-45% of the total block of the trip. Watching movies or sleeping.
BTW, though it's not my style, the guys that are playing the game with landing currency average about an extra month's pay a year. Or at least a month's worth of flying bought while waiting for class.
Here's a post from the 2017 earnings thread. Now before I get flamed for posting such things I am a firm believer in giving people in this profession data points so they can make informed decisions as to where they might want to try to hang their hat. Looking at numbers on APC doesn't show what the job is like at the various airlines. You need numbers and anecdotes from different positions on a seniority list to help make an informed choice.
I'm not senior, nor junior. No scams, games, etc, but this is what you can do as a joe blow line holder on WB FO positions:
1) Airline employer: UAL, about ~60-65% overall company seniority
2) Seat: FO, about ~70% in my BES
3) Equipment: 777
4) Years of Service with company: 12 yr
5) How many days you worked: 116*
6) How many overnights you had: I had two day trips, the rest had overnights. Most were 4day trips with a few 2day domestic trips, a couple 3day international and one 7day extravaganza which I traded to on purpose.
7) How many hours you blocked: 802
8) How many hours did you credit: 1235
9) Expected gross income: ~$279,500
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.):
10a) DC: ~$43,000
10b) PS: ~$30,500
10c) Etc: ~$6,600 for PerDiem and ~$1,500 or so for what I assume
to be on time perf and what not.
Total, more or less: ~$360k
*The details:
- I live local to my base.
- I bid reserve for the Dec bid period that is included in the 2017 pay to get Xmas off and didn't work a single day that month.
- Some of my trips have very late shows and early finishes (9pm starts and 5am finishes). Those can be considered days off to some, myself included. Including those days as days on increases my days worked by about 13 days. That being said, if those are considered days worked, then anyone who commutes in a day before or home the day after a trip should include those commuting days as work.
- Most of my flying is long haul international. We are on break for about 40-45% of the total block of the trip. Watching movies or sleeping.
03-05-2018, 04:45 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,916
If I lived somewhere where UAL had WB then I’d have taken the UAL interview. No brainer. No matter how nice the WB is, I’d still have to commute to do it. And I’m not cut out for that. One man’s garbage....
03-05-2018, 06:55 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
All else being equal, the career potential at UAL is greater, as is the potential for disaster. Stability at SWA is pretty much a given. I don't think they've ever closed a domicile and the only things that'll be left after a nuclear war are roaches the size of footballs and Southwest Airlines.
03-05-2018, 10:12 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 348
03-05-2018, 10:37 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
03-05-2018, 11:14 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 262
That’s the difference between a system that has realtime opentime trading and ours which is seniority only unless it’s in real-time. The other part is they can trade with opentime and drops from every base and we have to wait until 13:00 the day prior. All of this ALPA wants and unless they allow the above our trading will never improve!
03-05-2018, 12:17 PM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat
Posts: 1,440
Speaking of that. The bidding and trading we do here at UAL is pure garbage . So many restrictions . I understand the seniority part versus first come first serve. But man multiple pass airlines I worked for had better options for adjusting your schedule. Even dog Sh*t regionals had better systems .. I was really shocked at it when I came aboard .
Disclosure I am a junior mofo ... but I still think my *****ing has merit ..
Disclosure I am a junior mofo ... but I still think my *****ing has merit ..
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