Chuck D

I'll certainly be paying into LTD for the long run in case it's ever needed. It's essential in this industry. But the last thing we need is for it to become a sweetheart deal that incentivizes using it and staying on it. I know a number of guys who have reluctantly used it out of pure necessity and flew with one who almost certainly, uh, "maximized" it for several years while out for surgery/recovery while day trading throughout. Outlier? Sure. Is trading something one can do while recovering? Of course, but this person was pretty talkative about the whole good deal.

We should be incentivized to stay OFF of LTD, but not forced to sell the house if we're on it. If our meager LTD forces the sale of the 2nd and 3rd boat I'm not going contribute too much to that person's go-fund-me campaign.

How about take it's current max payout in 2018 dollars and tie future payouts to inflation or bump it 1-1.5% per year for the length of the contract?

okawner

Maybe offer an option for higher benefits with a higher premium?

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Boeing Aviator

That is what I suggested in the last contract survey. As far as people taking advantage and lowering the benefit to prevent abuse. I couldn’t disagree more. How about we design a system that prevents abuse? Why should anyone who is legitimately on LTD suffer less benefit?

As an FYI according to the AIP thread on the Spirit section of this forum it appears they have negotiated an option to pay extra to get a 15K LTD monthly benefit.

Why should we have any less then DAL? Even if there benefit is taxable its still much higher then our benefit even before you add in 32% B plan contributions. It also appears SWA also has a far superior plan benefit.

My two cents.

Zenofzin

I wonder can’t they let us choose varying degrees of coverage for different premiums? Where a pilot could opt for more coverage by paying a higher monthly premium.. I think a lot of guys would be in favor of that.

Zenofzin

Dude your on your own planet, most guys want Ltd and good work rules not sure where you come up with some of your stuff....

oldmako

Dude, you're missing an apostrophe. And your sarcasm detector knob needs tweaking.

Most guys just wanted the raise, both in the contract and then again during the extension. What was it, 78%? There were some who argued otherwise but the yea's carried the day, twice. You're right, I am on my own planet.

crflyer

Sounds like people who think it’s a choice to be on reserve, and/or think our reserve system doesn’t require any attention. Anyway, back to the topic at hand...

Probe

Unfortunately that is not how insurance works. You can lower your deductible by paying a higher premium, but the insurance company makes more money on that. The insurance company would lose if a small number payed for a higher benefit, unless they raised ALL policyholders a higher amount as well.

Insurance companies are in it to make money.

I can't remember which nordic country it was, but one of them used to have world famous unemployment insurance. 100% match for your previous income, for 5 years. They looked at the numbers, and the vast majority got a job at 5 years, plus a few days.

They changed the benefit amount.

LTD is a wonderful insurance backstop, but it should not be such a sweetheart deal that it incentivizes its' use. And most of us would balk at the premium if they made it that attractive.

rp2pilot

Might I also add that if someone is really worried about increasing their long term disability income, ALPA does offer LTD insurance in varying amounts/premium costs. It's NOT cheap, and I cancelled my coverage when the company reinstated LTD. I'd wage you could get supplemental policies from most insurance companies as well (GEICO, USAA, et. al.).

Boeing Aviator

Sweethart deal? In 1998 CAL negotiated a contract with LTD at $7500 per month cap tax free benefit. In that contract widebody 12 yr. CA rate was approximately $190. 737 12 yr CA was approximately $165.

CAL was negotiating a contract for 2 years prior to the merger and a contractual objective was to increase the LTD cap and obtain B plan company contributions for those on LTD. The merger happened and the CAL section six negotiations like UAL’s ended.

The JCBA yielded a $500 monthly increase in LTD benefit to $8000 a month maximum cap. When asked of the JCBA negotiators why such a minmual increase to our LTD benefit? The response, due to bringing LUAL up to the LCAL type of LTD plan (as discussed earlier in this thread LUAL LTD was terrible post bankruptcy contract) all we could negotiate was the $8000 monthly max cap.

A 5 year FO shouldn’t be able to reach the max LTD benefit. This reflects a LTD benefit that severely trails pay rate increases.

That being said. Why should we as UAL pilots have significantly lower LTD benefits as compared to DAL and SWA? How is this any different from fixing reserve, training pay, vacation pay etc. all areas needing improvement in our next contract? Lastly LTD benefits shouldn’t be surpressed due to potiential pilot abuse. No one should allowed to be able to stay on LTD if there is any feasible way to obtain a FAA medical. That happened many times in the CAL LTD plan. Pilots were told by the LTD committee your eligible to regain your medical get it back or your cut off LTD.