February New Hire Classes
01-23-2018, 07:58 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: .
Posts: 348
The quickest way to tell if someone is competent and confident in their own abilities is by how much they micromanage the other guy’s flying. Also the quickest way to earn a spot on my no-fly list.
01-23-2018, 08:40 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Ann Rhodes was at SWA for years in hiring, and was HR. She was later at Jetblue....as was Dean Melonas...also a former FA at AA....or was at least an inflight instructor. Most recently at FedEx, we had an HR guy for years leave (many actually thought he was a pilot) and his replacement came from Legal.
Pilots hiring pilots? YGTBSM. You guys may (or may not) have *****ed about Charlie Venema, Bill Kennedy, and their predecessors but the fact that pilots were involved in the process was an aberration, not a norm. You actually had it good and probably didn't realize it.
Corporations tailor their departments to A) manage risks and B) manage costs. The risk these days seems to be bad press, lawsuits, and social media gaffs more than bent metal, so HR and Legal will likely carry the battle for a while. That's a reflection--a good one--on how much more we take safety for granted these days. Nobody is terrified of us crashing--but they are concerned about bad PR and lawsuits. Pilots have gotten pretty good at their craft, and the system is remarkably safe. Thus--we don't think about blood and guts and sheet metal as the main concern anymore. The cost of carrying a well paid HR person in a corner office, or even a lawyer, is also likely less than the care and feeding of a WB captain. When our top earners make 300-400k a year, its easy enough to replace them with a person who might have only 80% of the job knowledge for 40-50% of the pay. They can contract out to get the 20% difference they need when they want more pilot specific input or info.
The key to success--either as a candidate for the job or as pilot wanting to influence the recruiting process--is communication. We (as pilots) are simply going to have to accept we will have HR, Inflight, Legal, and others intermixed in any process as we try to add pilots to our team. From an interview prep perspective--its why we have said for years its not always your pilot skills that get you hired (or not). From an organization perspective, the take away is if you want to help steer the hiring process, you have to develop a relationship with these others along the way, and explain why the traits you value should be the ones that they value as well. Otherwise--well--HR is just got going to hand you some folks and say "make this work...." Its up to us to explain why sometimes the stuff they like doesn't help us very much, and the stuff they don't is sometimes valuable.
Pilots hiring pilots? YGTBSM. You guys may (or may not) have *****ed about Charlie Venema, Bill Kennedy, and their predecessors but the fact that pilots were involved in the process was an aberration, not a norm. You actually had it good and probably didn't realize it.
Corporations tailor their departments to A) manage risks and B) manage costs. The risk these days seems to be bad press, lawsuits, and social media gaffs more than bent metal, so HR and Legal will likely carry the battle for a while. That's a reflection--a good one--on how much more we take safety for granted these days. Nobody is terrified of us crashing--but they are concerned about bad PR and lawsuits. Pilots have gotten pretty good at their craft, and the system is remarkably safe. Thus--we don't think about blood and guts and sheet metal as the main concern anymore. The cost of carrying a well paid HR person in a corner office, or even a lawyer, is also likely less than the care and feeding of a WB captain. When our top earners make 300-400k a year, its easy enough to replace them with a person who might have only 80% of the job knowledge for 40-50% of the pay. They can contract out to get the 20% difference they need when they want more pilot specific input or info.
The key to success--either as a candidate for the job or as pilot wanting to influence the recruiting process--is communication. We (as pilots) are simply going to have to accept we will have HR, Inflight, Legal, and others intermixed in any process as we try to add pilots to our team. From an interview prep perspective--its why we have said for years its not always your pilot skills that get you hired (or not). From an organization perspective, the take away is if you want to help steer the hiring process, you have to develop a relationship with these others along the way, and explain why the traits you value should be the ones that they value as well. Otherwise--well--HR is just got going to hand you some folks and say "make this work...." Its up to us to explain why sometimes the stuff they like doesn't help us very much, and the stuff they don't is sometimes valuable.
01-23-2018, 08:49 PM
#64
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
What is it with the new breed of thin-skinned people that we're hiring and post on here? Guess some of you must fall into that minority category of which I speak. Said it before and I'll say it again, most of the new guys are great. But the trouble-making 1%'ers are rapidly becoming the 5-10%'ers. In case you missed it I put the blame squarely at the feet of our hiring practices. HR has no desire to hire the guys who you'd love sitting next to in a cockpit for 2-12 hours. Their ideal candidate is the tattle-tale, know-it-all who's job. (in his eyes), is to co-Captain along with you.
01-23-2018, 09:16 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
That's the ironic part. I don't say one thing while the other guys flying yet the 1 year snowflake/millennial wonder kid has to pipe up constantly while I'm doing so. Funnily enough when I was new I just sat there and minded my own business unless El Captain was about to kill me or get me violated. Guess micromanaging is ok as long as it comes from someone who's new and fresh out of training?
What is it with the new breed of thin-skinned people that we're hiring and post on here? Guess some of you must fall into that minority category of which I speak. Said it before and I'll say it again, most of the new guys are great. But the trouble-making 1%'ers are rapidly becoming the 5-10%'ers. In case you missed it I put the blame squarely at the feet of our hiring practices. HR has no desire to hire the guys who you'd love sitting next to in a cockpit for 2-12 hours. Their ideal candidate is the tattle-tale, know-it-all who's job. (in his eyes), is to co-Captain along with you.
What is it with the new breed of thin-skinned people that we're hiring and post on here? Guess some of you must fall into that minority category of which I speak. Said it before and I'll say it again, most of the new guys are great. But the trouble-making 1%'ers are rapidly becoming the 5-10%'ers. In case you missed it I put the blame squarely at the feet of our hiring practices. HR has no desire to hire the guys who you'd love sitting next to in a cockpit for 2-12 hours. Their ideal candidate is the tattle-tale, know-it-all who's job. (in his eyes), is to co-Captain along with you.
I am not going to respond, sorry
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01-23-2018, 09:36 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 332
Ann Rhodes was at SWA for years in hiring, and was HR. She was later at Jetblue....as was Dean Melonas...also a former FA at AA....or was at least an inflight instructor. Most recently at FedEx, we had an HR guy for years leave (many actually thought he was a pilot) and his replacement came from Legal.
Pilots hiring pilots? YGTBSM. You guys may (or may not) have *****ed about Charlie Venema, Bill Kennedy, and their predecessors but the fact that pilots were involved in the process was an aberration, not a norm. You actually had it good and probably didn't realize it.
Corporations tailor their departments to A) manage risks and B) manage costs. The risk these days seems to be bad press, lawsuits, and social media gaffs more than bent metal, so HR and Legal will likely carry the battle for a while. That's a reflection--a good one--on how much more we take safety for granted these days. Nobody is terrified of us crashing--but they are concerned about bad PR and lawsuits. Pilots have gotten pretty good at their craft, and the system is remarkably safe. Thus--we don't think about blood and guts and sheet metal as the main concern anymore. The cost of carrying a well paid HR person in a corner office, or even a lawyer, is also likely less than the care and feeding of a WB captain. When our top earners make 300-400k a year, its easy enough to replace them with a person who might have only 80% of the job knowledge for 40-50% of the pay. They can contract out to get the 20% difference they need when they want more pilot specific input or info.
The key to success--either as a candidate for the job or as pilot wanting to influence the recruiting process--is communication. We (as pilots) are simply going to have to accept we will have HR, Inflight, Legal, and others intermixed in any process as we try to add pilots to our team. From an interview prep perspective--its why we have said for years its not always your pilot skills that get you hired (or not). From an organization perspective, the take away is if you want to help steer the hiring process, you have to develop a relationship with these others along the way, and explain why the traits you value should be the ones that they value as well. Otherwise--well--HR is just got going to hand you some folks and say "make this work...." Its up to us to explain why sometimes the stuff they like doesn't help us very much, and the stuff they don't is sometimes valuable.
Pilots hiring pilots? YGTBSM. You guys may (or may not) have *****ed about Charlie Venema, Bill Kennedy, and their predecessors but the fact that pilots were involved in the process was an aberration, not a norm. You actually had it good and probably didn't realize it.
Corporations tailor their departments to A) manage risks and B) manage costs. The risk these days seems to be bad press, lawsuits, and social media gaffs more than bent metal, so HR and Legal will likely carry the battle for a while. That's a reflection--a good one--on how much more we take safety for granted these days. Nobody is terrified of us crashing--but they are concerned about bad PR and lawsuits. Pilots have gotten pretty good at their craft, and the system is remarkably safe. Thus--we don't think about blood and guts and sheet metal as the main concern anymore. The cost of carrying a well paid HR person in a corner office, or even a lawyer, is also likely less than the care and feeding of a WB captain. When our top earners make 300-400k a year, its easy enough to replace them with a person who might have only 80% of the job knowledge for 40-50% of the pay. They can contract out to get the 20% difference they need when they want more pilot specific input or info.
The key to success--either as a candidate for the job or as pilot wanting to influence the recruiting process--is communication. We (as pilots) are simply going to have to accept we will have HR, Inflight, Legal, and others intermixed in any process as we try to add pilots to our team. From an interview prep perspective--its why we have said for years its not always your pilot skills that get you hired (or not). From an organization perspective, the take away is if you want to help steer the hiring process, you have to develop a relationship with these others along the way, and explain why the traits you value should be the ones that they value as well. Otherwise--well--HR is just got going to hand you some folks and say "make this work...." Its up to us to explain why sometimes the stuff they like doesn't help us very much, and the stuff they don't is sometimes valuable.
I agree with much of what you said however.
01-23-2018, 10:33 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,785
I think in the last couple years that may have changed. Especially with the people working under him.
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