BMEP100

Good move if they can get it worked out.
United Considers Buying New Boeing 767 Passenger Jets

Otterbox

“Contingent on scope relief” most likely... UAL management is negotiating in public with its pilot group to try to rally support for its pilots give away scope more cheeply.

rv8builder

"We're thinking of adding 30-40 Airbus!"

"We're thinking of getting some NEW 767s!!!"

"We're going to GROW!!!"

"Hey, let's negotiate!!!"

Meaningful growth is all but a rumor at this point, and pilots are already falling for the old carrot/stick. Let's hope I'm wrong!

Airhoss

And of course it's only right that that an aircraft the size of a 767-300 pays the same rate as a 737. For seniority and all.

horrido27

67% of the pilot group felt it was ok back in '12.. and then over 79% agreed to extend in earlier last year~
Oh Well.
It is what it is

Motch

Chuck D

tweaked that a bit.

Perhaps the company opened section 6 early with the hopes of some horse trading around that rate and, oh, scope lol.

Dave Fitzgerald

It wouldn't surprise me if they would be a newer version. The FedEx version--only with seats. New engines, and cockpit. Much like what the 757 update should have been.

Otherwise, it's the same argument for the cancelation of the 737-700's. Why buy an older generation of plane that will be with us for 20 years? Or, we could order them, then indefinitely defer that same order 6 months later. Use 767-300's make much more sense, unless they can't find any.

Tpinks

Unlike the 737's, they would not need to be at United for 20 years. I'm sure there would be great demand for some lightly used 10 year old 767's for freighter conversion.

OutsourceNoMo

United ALPA pilots do not need to lose scope to secure orders of aircraft which UAL already needs. UAL can currently outsource 504 regional aircraft equivalent to 90% of UAL's mainline count of narrow-body fleet. This equates to a max potential outsourcing of over 31,218 physical seats! 255 of the 504 aircraft (45.5% of narrow-body fleet) are larger 70/76 airframes (18,768+ physical seats) which UAL may outsource. Kirby does not need outsourcing, he simply wants it to keep ALPA and the piloting profession from growing more unified.

United gorged itself on regional flying to the point that outsourced flying became a financial liability. At one point roughly 63% of UAL departures were once outsourced, which in part hampered United Airlines’ post-merger profitability. UALPA pilots and other labor
groups can lose temporary contract improvements and see management walk away from large aircraft orders at the collective cost of thousands of pilot furloughs.

All united regional flying could be in-soursed in the next 15 year period because currency inflation threatens the “regional” airline model. Real inflation remains a constant of indefinite quantitative easing (QE) Federal Reserve policy. World markets dominated by debt and service sectors have little tolerance for an absence of currency inflation. Financial analysts continue to call for QE stimulated GDP growth. United ALPA must recognize that continuous inflation puts the very life or death of every regional business model squarely in the hands of legacy mainline pilots. Current market forces are an opportunity to reduce the quantity of physically outsourced mainline seats. The 50-seat aircraft of the day will soon be obsolete and over the next 15 years, the 76 seat jets of today will become uneconomically equivalent to today's 50-seat jets.

We must not repeat United's history and guard against permanent action incentivized by shortsighted reward. Even notable aviation consultants Mark Swelbar and Michael Boyd believe that mainline pilot unions will not repeat past outsourcing mistakes. We only have two unions left in the country who control this outcome! Have APA and ALPA learned from past outsourcing mistakes?

The most number of UAL flights should simply be operated by actual UAL pilots. Insourcing via up-gauging via Embraer 195-E2 or Bombardier C-Series 100/300 aircraft would help solve the pilot pay shortage and strangle the Regional Airline Association! Otherwise, to relax scope will exacerbate the pilot pay shortage and pressure congress to lower pilot qualification standards and increase the retirement age beyond age 65.

A hypothetical United Express fleet restructuring that reduces counts of 76-seat or smaller aircraft to add 100-150 seat aircraft improves cost efficiency generating modest capacity growth with fewer aircraft, departures, and staff. Lower operational frequency opens both gate & slot space while solving environmental concern with reduced unit carbon emission, unit fuel consumption and lower system-wide rates of air traffic congestion. Ultimately, insourcing coupled with appropriate work rules and employee recognition (ie. profit sharing) drives superior mainline culture and customer experience.


Too many generations of pilots have suffered furlough brought by outsourcing—no group suffered more than United pilots victimized by Scope reductions.

“If each pilot makes his or her union decisions based on what’s best for the group [as well as] profession instead of self-interest, we will succeed." Let's leave this industry better than we found it and not repeat the past!

robthree

My response to 'scope relief':
****