New Bid Out
10-11-2017, 03:54 AM
#111
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Thread has moved on somewhat from Joe's post earlier, but that's never stopped me before.
I had no skin in the game and was a child during both strikes. Not an airline family nor really knew any pilots.
Much later, one quote from a former co-worker at my old regional did hit home, however. He was asked a question by someone that was along these lines: "You were 8 years old. What's it matter? Where were you during the strike?"
His answer was basically, "Watching my father and my family lose everything."
I had no skin in the game and was a child during both strikes. Not an airline family nor really knew any pilots.
Much later, one quote from a former co-worker at my old regional did hit home, however. He was asked a question by someone that was along these lines: "You were 8 years old. What's it matter? Where were you during the strike?"
His answer was basically, "Watching my father and my family lose everything."
Careful, I know people in both groups, like some of my classmates who were option 1 strikers who returned, as well as some that held out for over a year before crossing the line.
10-11-2017, 06:14 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Was his father one of the other airline employees who was laid off due to a strike, or a pilot who decided to sacrifice his home, mortgage or kids,college savings in order to "teach Lorenzo or insert CEO name here?
Careful, I know people in both groups, like some of my classmates who were option 1 strikers who returned, as well as some that held out for over a year before crossing the line.
Careful, I know people in both groups, like some of my classmates who were option 1 strikers who returned, as well as some that held out for over a year before crossing the line.
Never forgive, they'll stab you in the back the first second in benefits them.
10-11-2017, 12:51 PM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 459
Was his father one of the other airline employees who was laid off due to a strike, or a pilot who decided to sacrifice his home, mortgage or kids,college savings in order to "teach Lorenzo or insert CEO name here?
Careful, I know people in both groups, like some of my classmates who were option 1 strikers who returned, as well as some that held out for over a year before crossing the line.
Careful, I know people in both groups, like some of my classmates who were option 1 strikers who returned, as well as some that held out for over a year before crossing the line.
His father was a striker. Not sure if he ever returned or came back when the strike was over.
10-11-2017, 11:13 PM
#114
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Technically you're incorrect about the CAL strike. The returning strikers were option 1 pilots who returned to their pre strike seniority number ahead of any scabs hired after 83. There was no loss of seniority whatsoever with the CAL strikers even among the old CAL pilots who scabbed.
I know that isn't a popular sound bite but it's true. My uncle was an option 1 full term striker before any one starts throwing accusations around.
He had some interesting observations after retuning which will probably cause some consternation on here.
I know that isn't a popular sound bite but it's true. My uncle was an option 1 full term striker before any one starts throwing accusations around.
He had some interesting observations after retuning which will probably cause some consternation on here.
10-11-2017, 11:59 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Not completely true. The Terry Neil group was singled out and despite being hired ahead of the scabs in '79, were placed behind them. Bob Wilson spearheaded an effort to get their seniority restored and was successful but for over 10 years, these battle star Pilots were robbed of their proper place on our seniority list.
10-12-2017, 05:25 AM
#116
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 68
Not completely true. The Terry Neil group was singled out and despite being hired ahead of the scabs in '79, were placed behind them. Bob Wilson spearheaded an effort to get their seniority restored and was successful but for over 10 years, these battle star Pilots were robbed of their proper place on our seniority list.
IIRC correctly there were actually two groups of pre strike furloughed pilots (only ones affected) who chose not to return until a time frame that damaged their position on the list. Their placement as you're referring above about being robbed and the damage I mentioned was strictly as a result of the framework of the negotiated return to work via order and award. Of which included a time constraint and deadlines to return. Which they did outside of the agreement. I'll withhold comment on that but it's fairly obvious as to why these 6 or 7 chose to.
The point I'm trying to make is any punishment, robbing or singled out was a direct result of the agreed upon order and award for the strikers return which I can absolutely say no scabs were involved in those negotiations. So who really screwed who? Devils advocate would say they were left hung out to dry in the first place with the order and award as written. That being said who were the negotiators and signatories of that agreement?
Its not a pretty picture of unionism and history and one that will probably ruffle some feathers on here. It certainly did to me.
10-12-2017, 06:49 AM
#117
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 846
I have to disagree with your term of being singled out and robbed. It's kind of a disingenuous statement that doesn't tell the whole story.
IIRC correctly there were actually two groups of pre strike furloughed pilots (only ones affected) who chose not to return until a time frame that damaged their position on the list. Their placement as you're referring above about being robbed and the damage I mentioned was strictly as a result of the framework of the negotiated return to work via order and award. Of which included a time constraint and deadlines to return. Which they did outside of the agreement. I'll withhold comment on that but it's fairly obvious as to why these 6 or 7 chose to.
The point I'm trying to make is any punishment, robbing or singled out was a direct result of the agreed upon order and award for the strikers return which I can absolutely say no scabs were involved in those negotiations. So who really screwed who? Devils advocate would say they were left hung out to dry in the first place with the order and award as written. That being said who were the negotiators and signatories of that agreement?
Its not a pretty picture of unionism and history and one that will probably ruffle some feathers on here. It certainly did to me.
IIRC correctly there were actually two groups of pre strike furloughed pilots (only ones affected) who chose not to return until a time frame that damaged their position on the list. Their placement as you're referring above about being robbed and the damage I mentioned was strictly as a result of the framework of the negotiated return to work via order and award. Of which included a time constraint and deadlines to return. Which they did outside of the agreement. I'll withhold comment on that but it's fairly obvious as to why these 6 or 7 chose to.
The point I'm trying to make is any punishment, robbing or singled out was a direct result of the agreed upon order and award for the strikers return which I can absolutely say no scabs were involved in those negotiations. So who really screwed who? Devils advocate would say they were left hung out to dry in the first place with the order and award as written. That being said who were the negotiators and signatories of that agreement?
Its not a pretty picture of unionism and history and one that will probably ruffle some feathers on here. It certainly did to me.
10-12-2017, 09:26 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,860
I have to disagree with your term of being singled out and robbed. It's kind of a disingenuous statement that doesn't tell the whole story.
IIRC correctly there were actually two groups of pre strike furloughed pilots (only ones affected) who chose not to return until a time frame that damaged their position on the list. Their placement as you're referring above about being robbed and the damage I mentioned was strictly as a result of the framework of the negotiated return to work via order and award. Of which included a time constraint and deadlines to return. Which they did outside of the agreement. I'll withhold comment on that but it's fairly obvious as to why these 6 or 7 chose to.
The point I'm trying to make is any punishment, robbing or singled out was a direct result of the agreed upon order and award for the strikers return which I can absolutely say no scabs were involved in those negotiations. So who really screwed who? Devils advocate would say they were left hung out to dry in the first place with the order and award as written. That being said who were the negotiators and signatories of that agreement?
Its not a pretty picture of unionism and history and one that will probably ruffle some feathers on here. It certainly did to me.
IIRC correctly there were actually two groups of pre strike furloughed pilots (only ones affected) who chose not to return until a time frame that damaged their position on the list. Their placement as you're referring above about being robbed and the damage I mentioned was strictly as a result of the framework of the negotiated return to work via order and award. Of which included a time constraint and deadlines to return. Which they did outside of the agreement. I'll withhold comment on that but it's fairly obvious as to why these 6 or 7 chose to.
The point I'm trying to make is any punishment, robbing or singled out was a direct result of the agreed upon order and award for the strikers return which I can absolutely say no scabs were involved in those negotiations. So who really screwed who? Devils advocate would say they were left hung out to dry in the first place with the order and award as written. That being said who were the negotiators and signatories of that agreement?
Its not a pretty picture of unionism and history and one that will probably ruffle some feathers on here. It certainly did to me.
10-12-2017, 11:52 AM
#119
UCH Pilot
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 787
Posts: 776
MODS! Can we close this thread? Its supposed to be about the new bid out, but instead it's about scabs. Also, the new bid is closed, so there is no "new bid" out, until the next one. We can create a new thread for that one and it can also get off point.
10-12-2017, 12:31 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
MODS! Eff the scabs and please leave it open.
Anything that highlights the millions of dollars which the scabs stole over the last 25 years should be highlighted. While I don't think that a strike is likely given the massive consolidation which has occurred, anything that heightens awareness of the importance of unity, and the corrosive effects caused by independent contractors ought to be brought front and center. This allows your union to direct and facilitate their efforts to negotiate on behalf of ALL of us, without having to waste time while putting out the dumpster fires caused by SOME of us. This isn't rocket science.
Ultimately, all threads get off point. Not only is that half the fun, it's human nature. As The Dude said, "new shinola has come to light". Post all you want about the new bid. It's still valid.
Anything that highlights the millions of dollars which the scabs stole over the last 25 years should be highlighted. While I don't think that a strike is likely given the massive consolidation which has occurred, anything that heightens awareness of the importance of unity, and the corrosive effects caused by independent contractors ought to be brought front and center. This allows your union to direct and facilitate their efforts to negotiate on behalf of ALL of us, without having to waste time while putting out the dumpster fires caused by SOME of us. This isn't rocket science.
Ultimately, all threads get off point. Not only is that half the fun, it's human nature. As The Dude said, "new shinola has come to light". Post all you want about the new bid. It's still valid.
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