blockplus

Just make sure the last bid group is open enough that you dont goto denial mode. In denial mode all bets are off.

Zenofzin

Although I have gone in denial mode and done better then the previous months awarded group

John Carr

Keep backpadeling

terminal

First off : those jobs were ours to begin with.

I’m not backpedaling. I’ve been consistent with my thoughts on scope.
Restricting it means more flight hours, more consistent branding/standardization, better upgrade times and faster seniority rise...and those jobs were ours to begin with!

I’m stating that the current vacation rules are not good for the pilots. And restricting what I can pickup so a hypothetical person can get hired is ridiculous...Our vacation rules are terrible. And PBS doesn’t help. Compare it to SWA who get paid for trip drops and can turn 7 days of vacation into 15 paid days off because of paid trip drops...I wouldn’t work if that was the case...most L-UAL guys probably wouldn’t either...that would actually help create jobs too!

And I’ve also proven that lockdown scope AND good vacation is possible using SWA as an example.

I cannot fathom how this pilot group could be so against vacation reform.

How is that backpedaling?

oldmako

I don't think anyone is against vacation reform given that we used to enjoy vacation override. This typically gave us additional days off and pay during vacation months. Getting Vaca Override back would be monumental and something I wish we'd push for. But since "negotiating in public" is frowned upon I'll leave it at that. Back to the thread at hand, I'm not willing to trade anything for scope, nor concessions of any kind. We've already paid, over and over. I also agree that the new-hire Commuter Crowd knows first hand how vitally important it is to the rest of their career. Particularly for those guys who spent a decade or more in an RJ or a turbo-shaker.

Leverage is funny stuff. Sometimes when its needed those with their hand on lever are loathe (blind to its existence, too chicken?) to use it. And when it cost them money, even more so. Personally, I think we'd be better served by taking the long view (and following the guidance of our union). Management always takes that approach, and they've been rewarded for it.

Instead, our leadership is forced to herd cats.

terminal

I can respect that.

Grumble

Best analogy I've heard is pilots play checkers, mgmt plays chess (and is always thinking 5 moves ahead).

Can you explain vacation override?

LeeFXDWG

Back in the days of prebuilt lines, trips that touched vacation were dropped with pay. So pilots would bid for lines that would maximize the vacation/trip drop footprint.

PBS obviously makes the concept obsolete.

Lee

rp2pilot

Vacation override was how things worked before PBS. You were awarded annual vacation as we are now, but there was no "pay" value to it; rather, it was just days off. When you bid your Line, you would try to bid a line that had trips clustered during your vacation. If the trip touched the vacation day , even by a minute, the trip was dropped and you were paid for the value of the trip. If you had seven days of vacation, say from the 10th through the 16th, and you bid a line that had a 3 day trips on the 1st, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 24th then your three middle trips would be dropped. With your 7 days of vacation, you would be off from the 4th till the 24th and yet still be paid for every trip. Obviously, the utility of that would depend on your seniority's ability to bid a line that maximized your vacation days.

terminal

You could potentially drop 3 trips with pay which would give you about 20 days off in a row. Then you could pickup extra and essentially get paid 4 to 1.