Kirby wants bigger RJ's.
05-29-2017, 07:51 PM
#81
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
You have such little faith in our union. The strike in 85 was mostly about a B-scale that wouldn't have harmed 95% of the guys on property. Still happened. Most of our (UAL) scope giveaway happened in the 2003 bankruptcy contract when we lost our pension, big money, and a lot of work rules. But I guess "we gave up scope for pay" sounds better.
You cite the 2003 bankruptcy contract as an external even that "happened" to us. The true history is that the company and our union instilled enough fear into the majority of us, that we volunteered for every pay and benefit cut that happened to us. We were volunteers. So for me the answer is an emphatic "yes".
The next time the bully comes for our lunch money, 65-75% of us will vote to give it to him. The senior guys because they want to keep most of what they have. Half of the rest don't want to start over, the other half don't have the self confidence that they will secure another mainline job.
We, as a pilots union, are the ultimate schoolyard bully. We are big and powerful on the playground when things are going our way (good economy). We cower like, well cowards, when the pendulum swings the other way.
Talking tough now means nothing. Show me what you got when the times are rough.
05-29-2017, 09:03 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
Jsled. He has little faith in our "union". I am on the same team. I also have little faith in us as individual pilots.
You cite the 2003 bankruptcy contract as an external even that "happened" to us. The true history is that the company and our union instilled enough fear into the majority of us, that we volunteered for every pay and benefit cut that happened to us. We were volunteers. So for me the answer is an emphatic "yes".
The next time the bully comes for our lunch money, 65-75% of us will vote to give it to him. The senior guys because they want to keep most of what they have. Half of the rest don't want to start over, the other half don't have the self confidence that they will secure another mainline job.
We, as a pilots union, are the ultimate schoolyard bully. We are big and powerful on the playground when things are going our way (good economy). We cower like, well cowards, when the pendulum swings the other way.
Talking tough now means nothing. Show me what you got when the times are rough.
You cite the 2003 bankruptcy contract as an external even that "happened" to us. The true history is that the company and our union instilled enough fear into the majority of us, that we volunteered for every pay and benefit cut that happened to us. We were volunteers. So for me the answer is an emphatic "yes".
The next time the bully comes for our lunch money, 65-75% of us will vote to give it to him. The senior guys because they want to keep most of what they have. Half of the rest don't want to start over, the other half don't have the self confidence that they will secure another mainline job.
We, as a pilots union, are the ultimate schoolyard bully. We are big and powerful on the playground when things are going our way (good economy). We cower like, well cowards, when the pendulum swings the other way.
Talking tough now means nothing. Show me what you got when the times are rough.
I agree with a lot of your post if you were writing it 17 years ago.
I don't know if you have followed the regionals in regards to contracts over the last 10 years. There is a new generation of pilots that are not push overs. We don't have the numbers yet to make a massive change but we can make a massive swing. These former regional pilots combined with the pilots who have 20+ years left, plus the older pilots who hate RJs and understand their damage, would shoot down a contract with relaxed scope well above a 50% margin.
05-29-2017, 10:52 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
I doubt the MEC's position is much different than most of the opinions here. No way.
I might be just a tad concerned about ORD LEC. We got much too cozy with Tilton there. I don't really know the current situation. Lots of speculation, nothing tangible regarding the MEC. Really too early to tell.
Participate in the process, communicate tour desires to your LEC's.
05-30-2017, 03:41 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Jsled. He has little faith in our "union". I am on the same team. I also have little faith in us as individual pilots.
You cite the 2003 bankruptcy contract as an external even that "happened" to us. The true history is that the company and our union instilled enough fear into the majority of us, that we volunteered for every pay and benefit cut that happened to us. We were volunteers. So for me the answer is an emphatic "yes".
The next time the bully comes for our lunch money, 65-75% of us will vote to give it to him. The senior guys because they want to keep most of what they have. Half of the rest don't want to start over, the other half don't have the self confidence that they will secure another mainline job.
We, as a pilots union, are the ultimate schoolyard bully. We are big and powerful on the playground when things are going our way (good economy). We cower like, well cowards, when the pendulum swings the other way.
Talking tough now means nothing. Show me what you got when the times are rough.
You cite the 2003 bankruptcy contract as an external even that "happened" to us. The true history is that the company and our union instilled enough fear into the majority of us, that we volunteered for every pay and benefit cut that happened to us. We were volunteers. So for me the answer is an emphatic "yes".
The next time the bully comes for our lunch money, 65-75% of us will vote to give it to him. The senior guys because they want to keep most of what they have. Half of the rest don't want to start over, the other half don't have the self confidence that they will secure another mainline job.
We, as a pilots union, are the ultimate schoolyard bully. We are big and powerful on the playground when things are going our way (good economy). We cower like, well cowards, when the pendulum swings the other way.
Talking tough now means nothing. Show me what you got when the times are rough.
Today, I think hindsight has taught the majority and the current MEC that we CAN stand up to management just like they did in 1985 and ESPECIALLY when the corporation is making money hand over fist. I, for one, think the naysayers here are not giving Todd Insler anywhere near the credit due. Anyone who knows Todd knows the answer to Kirby will be not only "NO" but "H*LL NO!!" We buy 'em; we fly'em".
Send an email to your reps if you're worried and see what the reply is. I think most everyone is on the same page today when it comes to Scope, and Kirby is in for a big wrist slap if he hasn't already heard from Todd.
Patience everyone. Growth has not come to an end. It's paused for a whole lot of reasons.
05-30-2017, 04:19 AM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Email your rep!
Last edited by Sunvox; 05-30-2017 at 04:41 AM.
05-30-2017, 05:34 AM
#86
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
I agree with a lot of your post if you were writing it 17 years ago.
I don't know if you have followed the regionals in regards to contracts over the last 10 years. There is a new generation of pilots that are not push overs. We don't have the numbers yet to make a massive change but we can make a massive swing. These former regional pilots combined with the pilots who have 20+ years left, plus the older pilots who hate RJs and understand their damage, would shoot down a contract with relaxed scope well above a 50% margin.
I don't know if you have followed the regionals in regards to contracts over the last 10 years. There is a new generation of pilots that are not push overs. We don't have the numbers yet to make a massive change but we can make a massive swing. These former regional pilots combined with the pilots who have 20+ years left, plus the older pilots who hate RJs and understand their damage, would shoot down a contract with relaxed scope well above a 50% margin.
05-30-2017, 06:04 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,539
If you hired brand new Riddle, UND, or other collegiate aviation grads with a 1,000 hour R-ATP onto a mainline list flying a 76 seat airplane for $30/hour that seat would never be empty. 4-5 year equipment lock. Get your thousand and upgrade.
After the equipment lock expires offer the best and brightest the chance to stay on another 2 years as instructors / LCA at narrowbody FO rates, or pay protected at whatever their seniority could hold. Stay super senior in the seat.
Guys above a certain level of experience can go right to bidding narrowbody equipment. Ultimately, wages at the 76 seat level would be negotiated upward through pattern bargaining.
First legacy to figure out the above wins. Until then I hope you tell Kirby where he can suck it.
After the equipment lock expires offer the best and brightest the chance to stay on another 2 years as instructors / LCA at narrowbody FO rates, or pay protected at whatever their seniority could hold. Stay super senior in the seat.
Guys above a certain level of experience can go right to bidding narrowbody equipment. Ultimately, wages at the 76 seat level would be negotiated upward through pattern bargaining.
First legacy to figure out the above wins. Until then I hope you tell Kirby where he can suck it.
05-30-2017, 07:48 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
If you hired brand new Riddle, UND, or other collegiate aviation grads with a 1,000 hour R-ATP onto a mainline list flying a 76 seat airplane for $30/hour that seat would never be empty. 4-5 year equipment lock. Get your thousand and upgrade.
After the equipment lock expires offer the best and brightest the chance to stay on another 2 years as instructors / LCA at narrowbody FO rates, or pay protected at whatever their seniority could hold. Stay super senior in the seat.
Guys above a certain level of experience can go right to bidding narrowbody equipment. Ultimately, wages at the 76 seat level would be negotiated upward through pattern bargaining.
First legacy to figure out the above wins. Until then I hope you tell Kirby where he can suck it.
After the equipment lock expires offer the best and brightest the chance to stay on another 2 years as instructors / LCA at narrowbody FO rates, or pay protected at whatever their seniority could hold. Stay super senior in the seat.
Guys above a certain level of experience can go right to bidding narrowbody equipment. Ultimately, wages at the 76 seat level would be negotiated upward through pattern bargaining.
First legacy to figure out the above wins. Until then I hope you tell Kirby where he can suck it.
Lufthansa copy
Let's give them credit for starting this years ago !
05-30-2017, 08:37 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,539
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