Kirby wants bigger RJ's.
06-01-2017, 05:21 PM
#151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Here is a short history of mainline bankruptcies in the last 15 years:
1. USAIR ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple paycuts.
2. UAL ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple paycuts.
3. DAL ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple payouts.
4. AMR APA pilots voted no. The judge at the 1113 hearing told AMR to go pack sand over cutting the pay of the pilots. A few months later, a pay RAISE was negotiated coming out of bankruptcy.
UAL pilots spent 9 years making half of what they should have. USAIR pilots spent, I can't remember, 12-14 years doing the same.
American pilots, with different union leadership, stood their ground and voted no.
I was willing to risk my job at United. Unfortunately I was outvoted by the majority who were not. The job became so bad, I voted with my feet, and left on a voluntary furlough. I have no faith in us as a group, or our union leadership, to effect a different outcome the next time the bully comes for our lunch money.
1. USAIR ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple paycuts.
2. UAL ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple paycuts.
3. DAL ALPA pilots voted yes for multiple payouts.
4. AMR APA pilots voted no. The judge at the 1113 hearing told AMR to go pack sand over cutting the pay of the pilots. A few months later, a pay RAISE was negotiated coming out of bankruptcy.
UAL pilots spent 9 years making half of what they should have. USAIR pilots spent, I can't remember, 12-14 years doing the same.
American pilots, with different union leadership, stood their ground and voted no.
I was willing to risk my job at United. Unfortunately I was outvoted by the majority who were not. The job became so bad, I voted with my feet, and left on a voluntary furlough. I have no faith in us as a group, or our union leadership, to effect a different outcome the next time the bully comes for our lunch money.
Massive wage cuts imposed on American Airlines workers
By Paul Sherman
18 April 2003
Using the threat of bankruptcy as a hammer, union officials and American Airlines executives this week collaborated to push through $1.8 billion in wage cuts and other concessions on employees at the world’s largest airline. The deal reached by the unions representing pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground workers will cut wages between 16 and 23 percent, impose further benefit and work rule concessions and slash thousands of jobs.
06-01-2017, 10:23 PM
#153
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
You seem to have missed that American pilots took major pay cuts after 911 while starting from a substantially lower pay rates. That's a huge omission on your part. They took the cuts and were paid far less then UAL and Delta forcing those wages lower in the 1113 process. They were the leaders in the pay cut parade following 911 and were not in the 1113 process like Delta and UAL.
Massive wage cuts imposed on American Airlines workers
By Paul Sherman
18 April 2003
Using the threat of bankruptcy as a hammer, union officials and American Airlines executives this week collaborated to push through $1.8 billion in wage cuts and other concessions on employees at the world’s largest airline. The deal reached by the unions representing pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground workers will cut wages between 16 and 23 percent, impose further benefit and work rule concessions and slash thousands of jobs.
Massive wage cuts imposed on American Airlines workers
By Paul Sherman
18 April 2003
Using the threat of bankruptcy as a hammer, union officials and American Airlines executives this week collaborated to push through $1.8 billion in wage cuts and other concessions on employees at the world’s largest airline. The deal reached by the unions representing pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, baggage handlers and other ground workers will cut wages between 16 and 23 percent, impose further benefit and work rule concessions and slash thousands of jobs.
As far as the 1113 process, they are the only pilot group to go through the 1113 process. They took it to the judge, and the judge told AMR no cuts. UAL, DAL, and USAIR pilots didn't have to guts to do that. We never completed the process. Only AMR did.
06-01-2017, 10:25 PM
#154
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe PW, one of our past MEC chairman's, unilaterally gave the company scope relief for 70 seaters if my memory serves me correctly. We never voted on it.
I think he did it by side letter.
I think he did it by side letter.
06-01-2017, 10:44 PM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Pilots approved a bankruptcy contract that permitted 70 seaters up to a specific weight limit (i.e. CRJ700). He "saved" his pension by unilaterally approving an increase in the limit to permit the E170 thinking that he was "dealing" with the company when they realized their oversight.
The joke was on him (and then us) and the pension was not saved. But at least we had more large RJs.
Ugh.
06-02-2017, 02:10 AM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
Your facts are inaccurate. American pilots made significantly more than we did from 95-2000. We got a big contract and made more than them for 2 years. Yes, they took a haircut outside bankruptcy, but they still made significantly more than us from 2004-2012. We only made more than American pilots for 4-5 out of the 21 years I have been here.
As far as the 1113 process, they are the only pilot group to go through the 1113 process. They took it to the judge, and the judge told AMR no cuts. UAL, DAL, and USAIR pilots didn't have to guts to do that. We never completed the process. Only AMR did.
As far as the 1113 process, they are the only pilot group to go through the 1113 process. They took it to the judge, and the judge told AMR no cuts. UAL, DAL, and USAIR pilots didn't have to guts to do that. We never completed the process. Only AMR did.
06-02-2017, 04:52 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
It's also fair to mention that AA pilots retained their pensions through this period, which is a huge cost item that every other legacy (Excluding AK?) didn't have after 2003. They held out as long as they could waiting for another Legacy to get their pensions restored. Alas, a "fake" bankruptcy allowed AA management to "freeze" their pensions ala CAL and NWA style versus terminated pension ala UAL/DAL.
06-02-2017, 04:59 AM
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Your facts are inaccurate. American pilots made significantly more than we did from 95-2000. We got a big contract and made more than them for 2 years. Yes, they took a haircut outside bankruptcy, but they still made significantly more than us from 2004-2012. We only made more than American pilots for 4-5 out of the 21 years I have been here.
As far as the 1113 process, they are the only pilot group to go through the 1113 process. They took it to the judge, and the judge told AMR no cuts. UAL, DAL, and USAIR pilots didn't have to guts to do that. We never completed the process. Only AMR did.
As far as the 1113 process, they are the only pilot group to go through the 1113 process. They took it to the judge, and the judge told AMR no cuts. UAL, DAL, and USAIR pilots didn't have to guts to do that. We never completed the process. Only AMR did.
06-02-2017, 06:24 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
Nope.
Pilots approved a bankruptcy contract that permitted 70 seaters up to a specific weight limit (i.e. CRJ700). He "saved" his pension by unilaterally approving an increase in the limit to permit the E170 thinking that he was "dealing" with the company when they realized their oversight.
The joke was on him (and then us) and the pension was not saved. But at least we had more large RJs.
Ugh.
Pilots approved a bankruptcy contract that permitted 70 seaters up to a specific weight limit (i.e. CRJ700). He "saved" his pension by unilaterally approving an increase in the limit to permit the E170 thinking that he was "dealing" with the company when they realized their oversight.
The joke was on him (and then us) and the pension was not saved. But at least we had more large RJs.
Ugh.
Runner up was placeing WM in the MEC during the last negotiations. I know let's try some milk toast, that'll show em!
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