Airhoss

Which is exactly why I never answer the inevitable heard any good rumors question. I've been here long enough to not believe anything I hear from anybody. All rumors and solid gouge are 99% BS. Even if they do come true, it's almost never in the way you heard about it.

SUX4U

Probably mentioned it after a 756 guy asked what the deal is with the fleet in LAX. Most guys I fly with always talk about how bad the flying has become compared to the glory days of "which island do you prefer this week" type flying. Since I wasn't there, that's simply speculation as to how DEN came up since we would likely see island flying flown by LAX crews go to DEN if they indeed do open that 756 there.

dr650

The vacancy is effective 8/29, does that mean I will be trained in new equipment by that day?

MasterOfPuppets

Not necessarily but that number does create the time stamp that will determine 8-F-9-S (Displacement rights) and your pay protection.

No Nonsense

The effective date is to limit how far out the company can make a vacancy or a displacements (not a date of activation) in time and to set bench marks to trigger various contractual rights. If they take too long to Train and/or activate you.

It’s important to know the definition of Activation (8-F-1 ( See Below)). It's too establish when a pilot is actually in the new category. if you have training it is the first leg of your IOE or 8-F-1-c is for Laterals, making it the day you begin your schedule as assigned by the company. For a lateral award the company must start you in the beginning of the bid period which mean assigning the date of activation, allowing notice so you can preference you monthly schedule.

The company has discretion on when to train based on their manpower needs specific to what category you’re coming from and going to.

What the contract dose do is impose penalties on them for going to long getting you into training which are based on how far past the effective date they delay training; like Delayed Activation Pay (DAP) 2 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-7, the right to bump someplace else your seniority can hold 3 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-9, the right to sit at home and get paid after 6 bid periods after the effective date 8-F-10 or if pilots junior to start getting activated when you should see DAP in your bid category on a man for man bases 8-F-5.

No Nonsense

2-K Category is a Base, Equipment, and Status combination (e.g. ORD 756 F/O) to which a
Pilot is assigned.

8-F

8-F-1 A Pilot’s date of “activation” shall be the date he begins in a new Category and is set by:
8-F-1-a the beginning of the first segment of his OE in that Category; or
8-F-1-b the beginning of the first segment of his first trip after training for that Category, if OE is not required; or
8-F-1-c the first day on which he begins a schedule in that new Category, when no training is required.

8-F-2 The order of activation of vacancy awards in a Category shall be in chronological order of the award bulletins.

8-F-6-e Should a Pilot with an un-activated award receive a subsequent award with a later effective date, the Company at its discretion may elect to activate the first award prior to activating the subsequent award.

8-F-5 Pay Rate Protection
8-F-5-a For each Category, on a man-for-man basis, a Pilot who has an un-activated vacancy award shall be “pay rate protected” (based upon the blended rate of the Category, if applicable), on the date:
1) another Pilot begins a temporary duty assignment (“TDY”) in the subject Pilot’s Category if such date is after the subject Pilot’s vacancy bid effective date; or
2) the activation date of a junior Pilot in the same Category on the same vacancy bulletin; or
3) the activation date of any Pilot in the same Category on subsequent vacancy
bulletins.

8-F-5-b Any Pilot who is pay rate protected under Section 8-F-5-a, and whose awarded vacancy involves a Base change, shall on the forty-sixth (46th) day of such protection be entitled to expenses and allowances in accordance with Section 4-E-1. Such expenses shall cease once the Pilot is no longer eligible for pay rate protection. However, should the Pilot again become eligible for pay rate protection to the same Category from the same bid award, these expenses shall resume immediately.
8-F-5-c A displaced Pilot who is activated to his Category shall be pay rate protected, on a man-for-man basis, if a junior Pilot displaced on the same displacement bulletin is receiving the pay rate of the Category from which they are displaced.

8-F-7 Changes In Pay
8-F-7-a When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a higher pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid the new rate upon the earliest of:
8-F-7-a-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-a-(2) If displaced, his date of displacement as published in the displacement bulletin issued under Section 8-E-3; or
8-F-7-a-(3) The first day of the second Bid Period following the Bid Period that contains his vacancy award effective date. For example, if his vacancy award effective date is January 10th, he shall be paid the new rate beginning on the first day of the March Bid Period; or
8-F-7-a-(4) The date he begins receiving pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.
8-F-7-b When a Pilot has a vacancy or displacement award to a lower pay rate (based upon the blended rate, if applicable, of the Category), he shall be paid at the current rate until the later of:
8-F-7-b-(1) His activation date; or
8-F-7-b-(2) The bulletin effective date; or
8-F-7-b-(3) The date he is no longer entitled to pay rate protection, in accordance with the provisions of Section 8-F-5.

8-F-9 If a Pilot's vacancy has not been cancelled or activated by the end of ninety-two (92) days (including the effective date specified in the bulletin advertising the vacancy) or three (3) Bid Periods after the vacancy bulletin effective date, whichever is earlier, the Pilot may at his option exercise displacement rights, bid any vacancy, or continue to be pay rate protected in accordance with Section 8.
8-F-9-a A Pilot's displacement rights shall expire if he has not exercised his rights prior to being activated into the vacancy award.
8-F-9-b A Pilot who bids or displaces into another Category shall continue to receive any pay rate protection for which he has previously qualified until his activation into that new Category.
8-F-9-c The provisions of Section 8-F-9 shall apply to a Pilot's most recent vacancy award. However, the provisions shall also apply to any vacancy award for which the Company elects to apply Section 8-F-6-e.
8-F-9-d The time period specified in Section 8-F-9 shall be suspended during a disruption to a Pilot's training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b. The suspension shall be equal to the length of the disruption (e.g., the period of unavailability) plus the lesser of (1) fourteen (14) days or (2) the number of days between the end of the disruption and the start or re-start of his training.
8-F-9-e For Pilots eligible for displacement as set forth in this Section 8-F-9, the effective date of such displacement shall be:
8-F-9-e-(1) The first day of the Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, provided the Pilot notified the Company of his intent to displace at least twenty-one (21) days prior to that date. For example, if the date determined by Section 8-F-9 is January 30 [first day of February Bid Period] and the Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace by January 9, the effective date of the displacement will be March 2 [first day of March Bid Period]; or
8-F-9-e-(2) The first day of the second Bid Period that follows the Bid Period containing the date determined by Section 8-F-9 above, in all other cases.
8-F-9-f A Pilot may not withdraw or change any notification or election made in accordance with this Section 8-F-9 unless mutually agreed to by the Company. A notification or election to displace must include the Category to which the Pilot is displacing. If a Pilot notifies the Company of his intent to displace prior to the date determined by Section 8-F-9, above, and if his vacancy award is not projected to be cancelled or activated by such date, the Company may make the displacement award prior to such date and adjust the Pilot's training plan accordingly.

8-F-10 A Pilot shall be released from work obligation and paid reserve guarantee if, after six (6) Bid Periods following the vacancy award effective date or date of displacement (as applicable), training (or activation in cases where training is not required) has not begun. However, the Pilot may elect, on a Bid Period basis, to continue receiving a schedule in his current Category. This six (6) Bid Period clock shall be suspended during a disruption to his training schedule as defined in Section 8-F-8-b.

Tao of Funk

Prospective employee here, I have a job offer but no class date. Is it common to have vacancies go unfilled after a bid, ie is it more or less likely they'll add a new hire class before November? I know, I know, but is there a historical presedent in this case?

Consuela

It is the only way to have vacancies for new hires to bid, so yes it is the normal process. Hopefully you'll get to class soon.

APC225

Congrats. Welcome!

Tao of Funk

From a previous post, if the vacancies aren't filled by new hires before September 5th they are cancelled. Have they cancelled vacancies in the past? I'm itching for a class to be announced!