cal73

As per the large carrier contract comparision:

UAL already has more RJs than DAL and DAL has more than 100 more mainline aircraft than we do.

And furthermore AMR has about 1.25 mainline aircraft for each regional.
DAL is 1.42 mainline airframes for each of their regional aircraft.
UAL has about 1.07 mainline airframes for each regional.


Now I know we don't measure our scope in airframes but maybe we should start, because you know who is paying for them right?!!

Furthermore UALPA negotiated essentially the same scope clause that DAL had in their last contract. They have been doing pretty well with that. There is no reason our management can't achieve the same success that DAL has achieved, unless of course they are incompetent. In either case there are no words that will convince me that more & bigger airplanes at Mesa, and Commutair is a good thing for the company. Don't even try to convince me that it would be good for our pilot group. Pound sand Kirby.

Grumble

Now compare widebody count UAL vs DAL and you get a better picture, and why mgmt has been trying to buy more narrow bodies.

Good God man, you're like a one trick pony. Those stupid guppies were NEVER coming here. "Hey let's buy another 60 year old design that we're then stuck with for 20 more years." Thank God cooler heads prevailed! They were dirt cheap because they're crap.

svergin

This is the conversation that should take place:

SK: "I want to bring in a bunch of small jets that exceed the scope limitations. We are going to make a ton of money. Its a great opportunity."

ALPA: "We agree. Lets bring them in."

SK: "So you're willing to give us the scope relief? That was easier than I thought."

ALPA: "No. We are going to fly them at United. Since its a "great opportunity" as you mention, and we are going to make a "ton of money" United should do it, and not let some other company like Skywest or Express Jet benefit from it.

Airhoss

The pile of steaming excrement to follow from SK would be voluminous and unintelligible using much big yet meaningless management speak.

Winston

Which is fine, because the next word out of our collective mouths should simply be "NO".

cal73

I have. In fact it was on the same slide from the contract comparison. That makes what I am looking at and saying even more concerning. I know. I know.

Haven't really noticed the big push to get more narrow bodies. I noticed something like that before Kirby. I did hear what Kirby said in that video. Loud and clear.




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Airhoss

I think you are a bit optimistic. But hope that you're right.

Grumble

The only guys that may need some education are post SLI new hires with a mil back ground who don't know the history. Other than them, I don't know a single guy willing to trade scope for pay. The guys who stagnated at the regionals for the last decade sure won't need to be convinced.

The company is well within their rights to add RJ's within the current contract.

Not one more outsourced RJ for any amount of money... time to shut them down.

webecheck

Of course mgmt wants to farm out the small jet flying. Net profit margins are lower, and when flown by more expensive mainline pilots, even lower still. Since stock price will affect future mgmt compensation reach arounds, there really is no surprise here. Plus they can play regionals against each other and take the lowest bidder. Such a Pandora's box the first negotiation which allowed this RJ flying was. It needs to all be taking back and done away with entirely because we can't control the quality of our product and the RJ employees have much less of a vested interest than we do. The way forward that was presented last Nov to compete with DAL said all the right things, but until we have a jet that bridges the market between 76 seaters and 738s/320s, we aren't going to be there. There aren't enough 700s/319s to argue that's the jet. We need a mainline flown 100 seater to compete and feed mainline hubs. Mgmt knows how Delta pulled it off, and said they were going to wait a bit to see if their initiatives were working like expected. What's happened since this was briefed in nov? Mainline delivering while the RJs create PR nightmares. You never know whether Kirby is just posturing for negotiations with his comments or not. I think it's definitely good in terms of lead turning attractive deals with manufacturers, but as pilots we need to just have a hard line stance and zero budge on scope. I doubt mgmt can ultimately get there (the briefed margin premium to DAL by 2020) without adopting some of what Delta has done. Thus, if we allow zero concessions on scope, what option do they have? Kirby has already said the key to mainline growth and profitability beyond what we currently have is feeding those hubs with customers from new markets, and I totally believe him. He's a smart dude and I think he gets it. However, you cant open all these new markets with 159-179 seat jets. If the pilot's don't budge on scope, a CS100 is a win for everyone and allows more 76seaters to be had. I just don't see any other way to achieve the briefed goals without it. So the options are pilots relax scope further, NSNB purchase, or mgmt accepts and admits to WS that the NOV 2016 plan that was to be realized by 2020 will never happen and then major shareholders start calling for a change of leadership. Yeah, the latter will never happen.

I could be wrong, but all emotions aside business is business and the only win for everyone IMO based on strategy/competitor success/economics is a NSNB purchase.

webecheck

I just watched the Kirby unplugged, and I didn't take it as if his goal is to pull one over on the pilots. The fact of the matter is he's right with needing RJs for some markets to feed hubs. Bigger jets just won't be profitable. I wish every single airframe could be flown at the mainline but I guess that ship sailed many years ago and we're stuck with it. I hope the MEC is absolutely hard lined on scope relaxation and has fruitful discussions about buying CS100s. It's got such a low operating cost and in our current contract it pays less than the CS300/700s/319 so I think its a win for everyone. Order a hundo of those things, that'll give them some more 76 seaters if they want, and then we have so many new markets/pax to feed 777s doing hub flying.