guppyflyer

Not sure about laughing stock as at least two other majors are starting ab initio programs as we speak. Whether we like it or not, we are moving in that direction as an industry.

As far as the cessation, had nothing to do with HR or any of the participants nor their performance to date.

UALfoLIFE

Lol, not a rumor at all. I spoke with 2 LCAs who I was flying with and a PI who did my MV. All 3 of these instructors were involved with training these ATCA hires and all three told me there knowledge and flying skills were far below that of the average new hire. On the same note I also here similar complaints about commutrair CPP newhires.

badflaps

The biz has been flush with great help for years. It is the pendulum thing. I don't know if there is anybody left at UAL that could remember Tracy's Terrors.

syd111

I don’t like this type of hiring but hasn’t Ual always mixed in some of this type of hiring? I keep reading no turbine time and all that but have seen that for years. 60’s, 78 79, 570,539 name all the groups and I think there is some low time no turbine however you want to judge but it has been here for years. JMO

baseball

ALPA had to jump in with both feet and put allot on the line with respect to getting congress and the President to support legislation to bring UP pilot experience and qualifications, and not allow employers to continue to water them down and lower the bar.

We as a profession need to keep the bar up and continue to monitor what we are bringing into the industry. We further need to recognize management's ultimate ulterior motive. A dollar. If management's can successfully LOWER qualifications across the board, they will essentially also lower the value of a pilot, and therefore put downward pressure on pilot salaries.


Just say NO!

Make sure you also tell your ALPA rep to enforce the laws and continue to try and raise the bar on hiring qualifications. Protect your career while protecting your salary! If you are a Captain, just ask yourself one question...., Ok, maybe two. 1. Do you want to do IOE on every leg of every flight? 2. Do you get paid extra for this (if not a check airman)?

tailwheel48

Lufthansa Aviation Training is still advertising the CPP Flight Instructor position on some recruiting sites such as Glassdoor. They are advertising 20 months to a job at mainline.

My $0.02? I think diversity in hiring is a good thing and the market is going to get tighter before it gets better. I think it behooves United and every other major to be more proactive in filling the pipeline, and if that means hiring CFI's from an organization such as Lufthansa Aviation Training so be it!

Those who claim that the relative low time of the graduates of this program should disqualify them, ignore the fact that the military successfully puts very low time pilots into some very demanding flying jobs. And these pilots have substantially more time than a typical military pilot at graduation.

Also, bear in mind that the students of the LAT CPP CFI's graduate into the right seat of airliners such as Lufthansa. Surely if you can teach someone to fly in the right seat of an airliner, you must be competent to fly the right seat of an airliner.

Of course, the nature of the program means more oversight and mentoring during their time at LAT and also means maintaining that oversight as they transition to United.

I believe United will benefit from maintaining a good mix of military, regional, corporate, and graduates from programs such as LAT.

baseball

The military flight training programs are vastly different than any civilian program. The vetting that goes on there is about 500 percent more stringent than any civilian program.

It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Furthermore, when the military was pumping out graduates with 250 ish hours, they still had to go out and get experience in their initial squadrons (seasoning). That takes up to a year depending on airframe and mission.

Back in the day, those military guys sat side-saddle as an engineer for a while. No more FE seats.

It would be disproportionately unfair to our line captains to be expected to conduct IOE on every leg for two years while these ab-initio pilots get the needed experience to learn the operation and the airplane.

Congress and ALPA have weighed in. We need to keep current laws in place and protect the profession.

fadec

Diversity used to mean (in the old days of 2017) discriminating among applicants using attributes having nothing to do with qualifications. Things such as skin color, age, sexual preference, gender... Am I now to understand that this is the old diversity? Is the new "diversity" really now focused on hiring people of all qualification levels? Should we perhaps have a quota for hiring high-school dropouts? After all, diversity is good. Wow.

bifff15

Well one of you has figured it out...

baseball

Maybe we could all be doctors. No real requirements to be a doctor right? Isn't there a doctor shortage?

Hey, we could watch some old school re-runs of Marcus Welby MD, MASH, Trapper John MD, and add in some current stuff like Chicago MED, Code Black, Grey's Anotomy, and House and I think we would be good to go. Just need to stay at a Holiday Inn Express and everyone can be a doctor.


In all seriousness. Diversity has nothing to do with "lowering of basic entry level standards" to enter the profession. If that's the October 2018 manifestation of the definition of diversity these people are nuts.

Enter Gordon Bethune to tell us all how after Vietnam we had some 250 hour military guys the industry hired (scabs) and saved the profession. Sure Gordie can tell us all about it on CNBC's "Squak Box" and tell us how we can hire a low time pilot and put them on an airliner. Trouble is, today's commitment is about 10 years, and the USAF/USN aren't giving up any 250 hour military pilots to the airlines.

Hope the ALPA reps are paying attention to another "fast one" being slipped by the industry.....