Baradium

Should I read anything into the fact that you didn't quote the important part of that statement?

Being that so many people that preach about "paying dues" didn't pay the dues they expect others to.

Say something about reserve rules? "You've got to pay your dues on reserve." Except they were on reserve a total of 1 month in their career and you've been on it for multiple years already. There is a lot of that type of thinking in this industry.

That's the difference between a law firm or hospital and this. In those fields there is a set pathway that you follow, and everyone goes through the same thing. In this field it all depends on when you were hired and how movement went. I'm not saying that experience isn't important. I'm saying that preaching that people should just accept the situation because those before them had to (not) go through it is absurd.

What I'm getting at is it's used much of the time as an excuse to not care about contract provisions that only affect those junior to you or coming behind. "Those were the provisions when *I* did it" doesn't mean that the situation is the same. If you don't care about people junior to you and want negotiating capital spent elsewhere, fine. But to pretend that it's for their benefit is insulting and that's where that phrase seems to be used most often.

If you believe in getting more experience first, that's fine. But that is the connotation from using that phrase. I heard it all the time at the regionals any time it had to do with contract provisions that affected junior pilots more than the senior ones.

Boeing Aviator

Not sure if this was discussed yet as I haven’t read every post on this thread. I believe in ten years most of the regionals will be gone. The starting position at a Legacy will be FO on a 70/76 RJ or 80/90/100 seater.

Biggest mistake ALPA made was in the 60’s/70’s not to mandate all flying be flown by their own companies. No outsourcing period, at least anything larger then a 19 seater. Many large airlines were flying turbo props throughout the 70’s and well into the 80’s. Republic - then NWA after the merger was still flying Convair 580’s (50 seaters)

PowderFinger

Not certain ALPA or anyone for that matter could envision all of the possible twists and turns that the industry would see with the enactment of deregulation... Think that happened in 1979.

Baradium

I agree on the first part. The second part I agree with [MENTION=76218]PowderFinger[/MENTION] that in those years there was no inkling of what was to come.

I do think their mistake was to continue giving up scope after the outsourcing began and scope clauses were in place though.

JoePatroni

ALPA should have gotten control of ATP issuance and controlled the supply like in medicine.

baseball

Statement number one is not entirely correct. There is no set pathway for Doctors, lawyers, or engineers. Depends on the type of practice or work you are involved in. There are various forks in the road and therefore different pathways.

Second statement: timing is everything in a supply and demand industry. However, what you, I think are referring to is when you were hired at a major airline and how that upward movement timing functions. The upward movement at a major airline depends on their business model, staffing model, and the demographics of the pilot group. What this is really about is paying your dues before you get hired by a major, not after.

Once you get hired at a major, most of your dues paying is over, but you still have to deal with the issues at your respective new airline; staffing, reserve, etc. I am not entirely sure you would call that paying your dues. But, after you get to a major, most folks just call it "patiently waiting." Ie,.Waiting for vacancy bids to get where you want to be.

baseball

With new rounds of negotiations beginning for a few airlines, perhaps ALPA can re-engage and raise the bar on scope.

Kirby's comments on scope relief did not go unnoticed by this pilot group. Seen some statements by LC 171 reps stating they intend to hold the line on scope. Not seeing any MEC public statements however. I would like to see that, as well as ALPA National.

baseball

3 bonanza UCCB commanders in current class.

So, that’s 3 pilots who paid their dues who aren’t getting a job.

Nice...

PowderFinger

Will be interesting to hear how they perform. Normal footprint or modifications required.

Floyd

I wonder if they paired them with a Captain?