Mulva

You are severely misinformed. If anything, look into this. You don't have to vote for it, but don't cheat yourself out of information either. The IBT 357 may think this is some form of FAPA conspiracy, but it's not. 99% of the Frontier pilots that never post on these boards are normal people just like most of you. Personally, I do not like IBT357, but that in no way reflects on how I think about individual RAH pilots. Your average every day joe line pilot here at F9 sees the RPC as a valid option. I just learned about it last week. I sat in on a meeting to learn more about it this week. And now I'm trying to share some of the realities of it here at APC, but we all know it is not the best place for constructive discussion. Most of my focus is going to be over at the RPC website that has been set up specifically to educate us ALL.

And to answer your questions, when you log in to the RPC site, one of the very first posts you will see is a post from Jeff Thomas, FAPA President. Not only is he a FAPA rep, he is a Frontier pilot who (can't speak for him personally, but I assume) enjoys working here just as much as everyone else. So he looks to have made himself available as a part of the discussion when appropriate. If you have problems with something he has said in the past, go ahead and ask it on the RPC site. Clear it up once and for all! There have been a lot of misperceptions and lies propagated into the masses of RAH and F9 pilots over the past year. It's not healthy. Let's get past this. How is it that off-line, one-on-one, we can have conversations with each other that are actually productive, but on-line, behind our Avatars, we can be so insensitive and vicious? If that is the way our relationship is going to be once we become "ONE", then I want no part of it. I am prepared right now to walk away from flying and never touch an airplane again and that is what I will do when I no longer enjoy my job. I see the RPC as an option that helps address the interests of ALL of us, not just F9 or RAH.

Much of your concerns stated in the quote above have been addressed a number of times in various threads here on APC. They are not valid concerns. The RPC is a net gain, not a loss for anyone. Do the research and then make your decision. You are doing yourself a disservice if you don't.

Mulva

I can't help but assume they support this. Ask them yourself at the RPC site.

APC is not a good way to find out. Call your representatives at IBT 357 or e-mail them. You guys elected them. They should be responsive to your requests.

It is an attempt to promote an alternative to our current path which will most likely remain very divisive.

That's interesting because, in all honesty, I don't want anything to do with the IBT. But I am absolutely willing to support a representation structure such as RPC where IBT357 is fully involved and supported by RPC.

East/West is most likely what we will have for many years if FAPA membership is forced into IBT representation that we do not want. I can only imagine the money wasted by both sides litigating DFR lawsuits as they arise. Nobody wants this. Don't you guys want to work together to "fight" (we call it "negotiate") with management? The RPC is a way to do just that, not fight each other.

It would be a shame if IBT pilots bury their heads in the sand because of assumptions and misperceptions that may or may not be valid. Take the responsibility to find out for yourselves. You already hate your management as they generally hate the IBT. Do you really want to bring on 700 pilots that will most likely continue to feel the same towards IBT? It might feel good at first, but is it really a good choice? That ultimately is a decision that will need to be determined by IBT pilots, not F9 pilots nor FAPA. Educate yourself and then decide.

GoBlue

I for one, will be willing to listen to what all this is about. I am at work so I haven't gotten my log in information yet, but I will check it out. I am fairly satisfied with what the 357 has done for us as a group since the new leadership has taken over. I also have some concerns about Fapa's feelings toward us "regional pilots", but that being said, this union election isn't just about what is best for me, it is about what is best for all of us collectively. I don't think everything is just going to heal if RPC is voted in, but maybe we can at least start down that road.

I am not saying that I will vote for RPC, but I will investigate it with an open mind.

ToiletDuck

If your pilot group is of this quality why would I ever want to deal with them about anything. Obviously you've known about how things were structured the entire time. However you waited till after you found out things weren't going exactly your way to start with these very underhanded moves.

Sorry but zero respect for FAPA or your RPC. Saying what you did automatically puts you on the other side of the line. Some people are respectable and worth dealing with, other's are not. You should be ashamed of yourself.

zoooropa

How is this underhanded? The RPC doesn't take anything away from the Local 357. You can keep everything you have and benefit from the consolidation of several committees.

Take the name away from the organization for a second, remove the emotion.

In one scenario, union A wants to remove union b and prevent them from participating in the process.

In another scenario, union A and union B take nothing from one another, they just add to each others current situation.

Which one do you think will end up with the more positive outcome?

F9 Driver

I actually find this funny. Without much imagination I hear a YX pilot saying the exact same thing about RAH / IBT pilots. It's all about perspective, of which you have exactly none, which garners you exactly zero respect by anyone who is looking for actual functioning representation.

What structure did FAPA leadership know about? What underhanded moves are you accusing FAPA leadership of?

Mulva

Appreciate your approach GoBlue. It's definitely worth looking at and also an opportunity for you to interact directly with F9 Pilots and FAPA reps in a respectful environment. Let's go with the "no question left behind" policy. If there is something FAPA has allegedly done that has caused friction, ask them to explain themselves. We tend to gather too much inaccurate information from these forums so I'd suggest going straight to the source. They are good guys and want to answer your questions.

And keep in mind that as far as IBT 357 goes, absolutely nothing will change in how they manage their CBA under the RPC. Except for the fact that through the RPC they will have access to FAPAs resources as well. Do not let anyone convince you that this weakens IBT357. Find out for yourself through discussion.

B

Mulva

TD, you missed the context on this. All I am saying is that you guys have a choice to consider this. It seems as though the RPC, with IBT 357 fully intact, is a way to smooth things over, allowing all voices to be heard.

You seem to be looking at this as a game or contest, one in which there is a winner and a loser. My fear is that simply shoehorning F9 pilots into IBT representation (that not a single one wants) is NOT going to turn out to be a good thing. Sure, it will feel good to you as you can say you won. But aren't the negative and decisive long term consequences something to be considered? There is an opportunity here to look at the big picture and how it will affect all of us at RAH.

Nobody wants a divided group. It just looks like it may remain a reality without finding a way to work together. FAPA is extending an olive branch here to your membership. An alternate approach. Something positive.

There's really not too much more I can say to you. You are either open minded or you are not.

F9 A319

if you go to the website, you will be able to determine who's involved. Unlike APC, it shows the actual name of the people that post.

Just that may cut back on some of the rhetoric found on this board where you can hide behind an anonomous screen name.

terryhflyer

The entity known as FAPA would no longer exist. This has nothing to do with FAPA. Three pilots from each pilot group would represent the airline as a whole. Someone correct me if I am wrong.