Am I the only one disgusted by the scabs list?
08-14-2006, 03:59 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
You see at most jobs in the US there is no right to strike. You may quit at any time you like but the right to strike is quite frankly absurd. Basically you walk off the job, screw your customers and then everyone has the right to come back to work, kind of like throwing a fit. What a joke, the right to strike applied back when there was actually worker abuse. Those abuses have disappeared from the work place. Now is the time to end the right to strike. Do arbitration and you will be fine. If the industry is doing well people will get higher raises. If its in the toilet then only cost of living raises or perhaps a pay freeze for a time while the industry recovers. The best part though is no pay cut. Just make sure pilots don't chose an arbitrator. No they would chose someone who thinks making 100k/year makes you poor and then everyone loses.
08-14-2006, 04:12 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Schone,
Stop wasting your limited brain cells worrying about scabs. You'd be better served thinking about how to write using correct grammar and spelling. If your posts had a valid point it wouldn't be discernable through your poor use of the English language. Learn how to use the English language to effectively make an argument then try your post again.
Do you talk like you write? English obviously is not your first language. Get some help at a local community college.
Sorry for the grammar police tactics but my wife teaches English and I'm reminded of my poor word choice quite often.
Stop wasting your limited brain cells worrying about scabs. You'd be better served thinking about how to write using correct grammar and spelling. If your posts had a valid point it wouldn't be discernable through your poor use of the English language. Learn how to use the English language to effectively make an argument then try your post again.
Do you talk like you write? English obviously is not your first language. Get some help at a local community college.
Sorry for the grammar police tactics but my wife teaches English and I'm reminded of my poor word choice quite often.
I was sitting here reading a few threads where conversations floats to the good old topic of scabs list and I have to wonder.
Why is it that I am the only one grossed out by it?
Here we are, telling younger people what they're choice of airlines should be based on somekind of a 'black list' (ya ya TSA wisea****), treating fellow pilots as if they were war criminals. As if there decisions had the effect of war autrocities against the rest of us?
Guys, seriously, how can you judge someone, working through life, without being in their exact position? Yes, I know everybody will say that we were all at that position, but for real, we haven't. Nobody has been in someone else's exact point in life to tell if that guy/girl did the right choice or not, and even if we did - different people different opinions.
Are you telling me that while blaming management you are willing to blame somebody who marely made a choice of either sitting at home waiting for the $24 dollars/hr job that never came, of finally taking the $16 dollars/hr job so his wife and baby could eat that night? Are you that unhumane?
Just remember that sometime ago.... maybe a little longer for some, maybe in the recent past for others, we haven't flown shiny airplanes with nice salaries. And if somebody is going to laugh about the salaries comment then let me rephrase and say, that it wasn't too long ago, that all of us weren't AIRLINES PRIMADONNAS. And for heaven's sake, please stop that 'if I suffered and waited, they can wait too' attitude. That's exactly what makes management stronger and us weak. That's why while we struggle to maintain our $21 dollars/hr WAGE, they maintain thier $800,000 /yr SALARY.
Please, feel free to comment as I know everybody will. Please explain to me where it is that I am so wrong at accepting people for face value.
Why is it that I am the only one grossed out by it?
Here we are, telling younger people what they're choice of airlines should be based on somekind of a 'black list' (ya ya TSA wisea****), treating fellow pilots as if they were war criminals. As if there decisions had the effect of war autrocities against the rest of us?
Guys, seriously, how can you judge someone, working through life, without being in their exact position? Yes, I know everybody will say that we were all at that position, but for real, we haven't. Nobody has been in someone else's exact point in life to tell if that guy/girl did the right choice or not, and even if we did - different people different opinions.
Are you telling me that while blaming management you are willing to blame somebody who marely made a choice of either sitting at home waiting for the $24 dollars/hr job that never came, of finally taking the $16 dollars/hr job so his wife and baby could eat that night? Are you that unhumane?
Just remember that sometime ago.... maybe a little longer for some, maybe in the recent past for others, we haven't flown shiny airplanes with nice salaries. And if somebody is going to laugh about the salaries comment then let me rephrase and say, that it wasn't too long ago, that all of us weren't AIRLINES PRIMADONNAS. And for heaven's sake, please stop that 'if I suffered and waited, they can wait too' attitude. That's exactly what makes management stronger and us weak. That's why while we struggle to maintain our $21 dollars/hr WAGE, they maintain thier $800,000 /yr SALARY.
Please, feel free to comment as I know everybody will. Please explain to me where it is that I am so wrong at accepting people for face value.
08-14-2006, 04:55 PM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 1,105
Are you stoned, what company gives good raises when things are good. Hell things are always good for the management at these places but they come to us for pay cuts because the stock holders don't agree with thier lousy decisions.
And when the industry is in the tank, management will always have you believe things are bad, keep cost down profits high, sound familiar? We as pilots are nothing more than an expense to these high rolling puppet masters we call management.
Only a few, and some very succesful companies are realizing that happy employees, that are on board with company goals and have not been treated as a load of ****** in the corporate back pocket will help a company to prosper.
Take away the ability to halt production and you take away the only bargaining power you have, period! Its not like we can go push a broom at the next company because we didn't like the way this one treated us, if we leave we only open the door for the industry to continue to lower wages and quality of life goes away for ever.
Point, counter point, debate closed!
08-14-2006, 05:01 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Who picks the arbitrator? What is "industry standard" (whose perception?).
4Years? Who's "books" do we trust. Who's COLA do we agree to?
Let's go back to "regulation" of the airlines. Then we will have a common thread of pay, pension, etc... and A ALOT of pilots out of work, and the un-employment rate will be at an all time high, and ...
Do you really feel this way? Who do you fly for? Or manage for?
4Years? Who's "books" do we trust. Who's COLA do we agree to?
Let's go back to "regulation" of the airlines. Then we will have a common thread of pay, pension, etc... and A ALOT of pilots out of work, and the un-employment rate will be at an all time high, and ...
Do you really feel this way? Who do you fly for? Or manage for?
The arbitrators can be a 3 board panel perhaps. One the pilots choose, one management chooses and one neutral one from washington DC. Industry standard is an average of what everyone else is making at the time. Well like it or not your going to have to trust managements books. Without management there is no paycheck. You have to believe that if they cook the books they will get caught so they will therefore be more motivated for honest book keeping. COLA is based on inflation costs nothing more nothing less. Again better to be making average right in the middle wages than trying to rob the company blind only to have to give back later on.
08-14-2006, 08:14 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,887
The arbitrators can be a 3 board panel perhaps. One the pilots choose, one management chooses and one neutral one from washington DC. Industry standard is an average of what everyone else is making at the time. Well like it or not your going to have to trust managements books. Without management there is no paycheck. You have to believe that if they cook the books they will get caught so they will therefore be more motivated for honest book keeping. COLA is based on inflation costs nothing more nothing less. Again better to be making average right in the middle wages than trying to rob the company blind only to have to give back later on.
Who is "everyone else"? And an AVERAGE? So why can't I have the higher pay? Who determines "average"?
Trust managements books. OK
I don't believe they will get caught if they "cook the books". Then, even if they do, SEC (if a public company) will close them down. Now I have NO job.
Without workers, there is no company, there is no management, etc....
Do you REALLY work for an airline? Are you sober?
08-14-2006, 08:39 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 737 F/O
Posts: 500
Hey Short, I wonder the same thing. I highly doubt he is a pilot. Claims he is an F/O at Comair, don't think he's been in the industry very long. Probably a PFT'er. Banned on another web board for his constant anti labor stance. A real piece of work 
He is now on my "Ignore List"
He is now on my "Ignore List"
08-15-2006, 12:55 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Let D.C. pick an arbitrator? SURE!
Who is "everyone else"? And an AVERAGE? So why can't I have the higher pay? Who determines "average"?
Trust managements books. OK
I don't believe they will get caught if they "cook the books". Then, even if they do, SEC (if a public company) will close them down. Now I have NO job.
Without workers, there is no company, there is no management, etc....
Do you REALLY work for an airline? Are you sober?
Who is "everyone else"? And an AVERAGE? So why can't I have the higher pay? Who determines "average"?
Trust managements books. OK
I don't believe they will get caught if they "cook the books". Then, even if they do, SEC (if a public company) will close them down. Now I have NO job.
Without workers, there is no company, there is no management, etc....
Do you REALLY work for an airline? Are you sober?
08-15-2006, 01:40 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Capt
Posts: 611
D-angelo..just curious..
what do you think of the electricians union, or police union. Are all unions bad.
And did they, at one time, have a place..but are now out of touch?
Just trying to figure out where you are coming from.
what do you think of the electricians union, or police union. Are all unions bad.
And did they, at one time, have a place..but are now out of touch?
Just trying to figure out where you are coming from.
08-15-2006, 02:24 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Now I have a question for you. Why do you guys at skywest want a union so bad? Do you realize how hard it is to get rid of them once they are on the property? Seeing what ALPA has done for everyone else lately(nothing) why would anyone there want to take an instant 2% paycut? The threat of a union is much more valuable than having a union could ever be. I wish at comair the decertification process would move along faster. Theres a growing number of people who want ALPA out. I predict within 10 years if they don't get their act together and start representing pilots the right way a mass decertification will begin. I know a lot of skywest guys like to point out merger protection. Guess what those SOBs will just ask you for a merger fund. We already have one at comair and its a freaking joke. Why should all the pilots have to pay a merger fund so ALPO can start hiring attorneys to represent you in a merger? Thats right those greedy SOBs will just keep asking for more and more money. I thought ALPO had top notch lawyers? Whats up with that why can't their lawyers do the job their supposed to and represent the pilots? Thats right not only will you have to pay 2% but those guys will have the gall to ask for even more money to protect you for a merger.
Thats the problem with unions. No money is ever enough for them. They are too lazy to represent their pilots so they make the pilots pay even more money for a merger lawyer. What a joke. This is one of the many reasons unions leave me with nothing but a sour taste in my mouth. This is why I keep in close contact with our friends at the national right to work foundation. They can help us in the event of any union abuses. BTW any pilot that is a member of a union can holla at me if they are the victim of union abuses. The NRTW foundation is ready to fight against union thugs and intimidation. This also applys to skywest pilots or any non union pilots. If a union is trying to organize and the majority wants it thats one thing. If the vocal minority using union thug tactics trys to get you to sign cards or falsely signs cards you can holla at me as well. I think the main goal is the destruction of unionism in America unless they clean up their act. I doubt I will see it in my lifetime but more and more people are getting sick of it every day. Slowly but surely unionism will begin crumbling down I believe. It will take a long time but it will happen.
06-10-2010, 12:14 PM
#70
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 54
From the Sprit scab list website:
That is the only definition that bothers me. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. I'd like to see the person who wrote that say that they would do the same with a straight face. When it comes down to your little baby eating, someone in your family getting medical treatment, ect, do you really think it is fair to label someone for taking care of someone they love? Give me a break.
The rest of the scab "provisions" I can get on board with. It's the one listed above that is just wrong on so many levels. BLOOD is always thicker than water. People need to remember that.
D. Any Spirit Airlines, Inc. pilot that crosses the picket line and has been confirmed to have operated a Spirit aircraft during a period of lawfully "struck work," or that "crawls back" sometime after the strike has started, due to family crisis issues; i.e. you're about to lose your house; to feed your family; your kid gets cancer and you need the money to pay for treatment; or any other case however extreme, is still a SCAB.
The rest of the scab "provisions" I can get on board with. It's the one listed above that is just wrong on so many levels. BLOOD is always thicker than water. People need to remember that.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
