Packer Backer

God, you must be management to believe that BS. Take away labor's last ditch remaining "tool" and we might as well just get rid of unions altogether. Like the RLA hasn't taken away enough already.

D'Angelo

Boy I guess all you have to do as a pilot to get into management is disagree with what the union says. Take notes guys disagree with the union and you too could be management!! Tell me why arbitration is such a bad thing? It takes things into acount such as economics, whats fair, career expectations etc and decides the most fair wage. If you strike for something you risk on setting the wage to high to where its unsustainable. The next contract signed needs to be 25 years with arbitartion for cost of living/industry standard wage raises every 4-5 years. That would be raising the bar. Eagles contract was 16 years, the new contract could be 25. See you are raising the bar after all that way.

rickair7777

That's ridiculous...I suspect you are an ATA staffer gettiing paid to do this...seriously.

In 25 years we could all be flying anything from giant blimps to fusion-powered interplanetary spaceships. We need to be able to make major adjustments every few years, anything longer than 5-6 years is really asking for it.

A long-term contract might help management, but it won't help the pilots...

If you have a 25 year contract, and the industry stays EXACTLY the same (ROTFLMAO) then it would be a wash.

If the industry changes in a way that would favor pilots...the pilots get screwed, they miss out on any opportunity to reap the benefits of the change. COL adjustments will be miniscule and based on inflation only, they would not take into account economic improvements in the rest of the airline industry.

If the industry takes a downturn, the pilots may THINK they have locked in their compensation...but a quick trip through the Ch.11 drive-through will fix that sh*t real quick-like...

C152driver

I am not familliar with this contract, but I cant imagine any reason whatsoever to accept it. If you accept the idea that regional pilots are underpaid, then why would you "lock in" those rates for 18-25 years? Even after you factor in a 2-3% COLA, your wages would still be more or less at 2006 rates in 2024! Actually, you would be losing money if inflation continues at the rate that it has been this year.... I would rather take my chances in the "open market".

Granted, most pilots work at a regional for a few years and move on and likely wouldnt notice or care too much.

D'Angelo

Pilots are so short sighted. Everytime they even sniff a profit they try and rob the company blind. No my friend it is time to have contracts in the middle. That means no more taking hostages when times are good and no more taking paycuts when times are bad. The problem is ALPA has polluted the minds of so many people. Don't worry slowly but surely people are joining my side. Eventually we will overthrow ALPO. Again you missed my point. The raises in arbitration are based on cost of living AND industry standard. That means if the industry took a payraise on average then you get a raise. If not then you just get a cost of living increase. The strike is an extremely selfish tool. Basically you throw a temper tantrum like a toddler then expect your job back. No thanks its time to raise the bar. Time for 20-25 year contracts with arbitration every 4 years taking into account industry conditions, industry standards, cost of living AND profitability. Pilots are too short sighted to think outside the box like this. It's not your fault its ALPA who has ruined the industry and the way pilots think. Now everyone is welcome to HOLLA at me if you want to know more. I can let you know how to decertify your union, etc.

C152driver

No, I think I have your point just fine. You said:

"The raises in arbitration are based on cost of living AND industry standard. That means if the industry took a payraise on average then you get a raise."

Arbitration is a form of negotiation, so there is no certainty that the pilots would get anything from it. Which side gets to pick the arbitrator? If the company does, then there is a strong possibility they will pick someone that is friendly to their position. Plus, locking in a COLA of 2-3% effectively means that you will have less and less earning power in comparison to inflation as time goes by.

That doesnt even begin to touch the issue of work rules.

IMO, pilots will do better if they maintain as much of a position of strength as they can.

G-Dog

D'angelo, I see your point, but you ae being extreme. 25 years?

D'Angelo

well maybe to raise the bar more lets say no expiration and arbitration all the way. No more union drama is the way to go.

Short Bus Drive

Who picks the arbitrator? What is "industry standard" (whose perception?).
4Years? Who's "books" do we trust. Who's COLA do we agree to?

Let's go back to "regulation" of the airlines. Then we will have a common thread of pay, pension, etc... and A ALOT of pilots out of work, and the un-employment rate will be at an all time high, and ...

Do you really feel this way? Who do you fly for? Or manage for?

D'Angelo

You see at most jobs in the US there is no right to strike. You may quit at any time you like but the right to strike is quite frankly absurd. Basically you walk off the job, screw your customers and then everyone has the right to come back to work, kind of like throwing a fit. What a joke, the right to strike applied back when there was actually worker abuse. Those abuses have disappeared from the work place. Now is the time to end the right to strike. Do arbitration and you will be fine. If the industry is doing well people will get higher raises. If its in the toilet then only cost of living raises or perhaps a pay freeze for a time while the industry recovers. The best part though is no pay cut. Just make sure pilots don't chose an arbitrator. No they would chose someone who thinks making 100k/year makes you poor and then everyone loses.