Am I the only one disgusted by the scabs list?
07-26-2006, 08:50 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by schone
One word.... pleassssseeeee. Nobody's more sacred than the pope. Not even he himself. While you are absolutly right I haven't logged a single 121 hour in my life - maybe that puts me in a better prespective to notice how you guys invented your own little wars to the point where you can actually persuade yourselves that there are better and worse people among you guys. Lots not forget, some of the greatest world's wars were faught that way..... propoganda.
And if somebody is going to laugh about the salaries comment then let me rephrase and say, that it wasn't too long ago, that all of us weren't AIRLINES PRIMADONNAS.
How's new hire ground school at GJ treating you?
Last edited by Slice; 07-26-2006 at 08:53 PM.
07-26-2006, 08:52 PM
#12
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
a lot of my buddies are currently getting hired onto regional airlines, none so-far have gone to Go-Jet although there are several individuals from my university that i know are there....those people at go-jet say that it's not a bad company or way of life, the rest of us however, are very skeptical, which is why the majority of us who will soon be on the list of people leaving the school (as hours build and permit) have been looking "over" go-jet to other companies. Several buddies work for GoJet's big brother, but are currently on forlough, three of my co-workers had been hired by TSA but were later not given class dates, all three soon had jobs w/ other airlines and 135 operations.
I personally can see both points, people tend to only want to take so much of any place or company, but still, people normally don't want to move on unless they have something to move on to that's better than where they're at. For the instructor pilot, regional airlines tend to be a nice step up from a cherokee or skyhawk and it's a welcomed change, so, who you fly for is a little less important to people, especially depending on how "desperate" you are. Same time, if you rough it out longer, you'll have better job prospects soon enough.
The most common argument heard in my community is...five years from now, will people be upset that i took that stupid "outta college" job just so i could get some work, and it was a "starter" job in the first place, and still get hired onto a major, or, will the guy in the interview process be a former TSA man who takes one look and nearly rips my head off....only time will tell.
I personally can see both points, people tend to only want to take so much of any place or company, but still, people normally don't want to move on unless they have something to move on to that's better than where they're at. For the instructor pilot, regional airlines tend to be a nice step up from a cherokee or skyhawk and it's a welcomed change, so, who you fly for is a little less important to people, especially depending on how "desperate" you are. Same time, if you rough it out longer, you'll have better job prospects soon enough.
The most common argument heard in my community is...five years from now, will people be upset that i took that stupid "outta college" job just so i could get some work, and it was a "starter" job in the first place, and still get hired onto a major, or, will the guy in the interview process be a former TSA man who takes one look and nearly rips my head off....only time will tell.
07-26-2006, 08:54 PM
#13
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
You need to learn real quick that aviation is a small industry. While you are responsible for your own career, your professional decisions (and what you are or are not willing to accept) has huge reprecussions for many other pilots and pilot groups.
I never applied to Mesa because I knew my skill & ability as a pilot was worth more than their contract said. Same with Pinnacle, same with Trans States.
I have a friend that went to GoJet because he is from STL. That was his personal decision and its his career, but every time I talk to him I make sure he realizes the affect his employment has on our mutual friends that are now furloughed from TSA. I make sure to tell him he is a REPLACEMENT WORKER.
Its not personal, its business...bit when your decisions (or those of another pilot group) start affecting someone else's quality of life, compensation or career expectations, it gets personal real quick.
I never applied to Mesa because I knew my skill & ability as a pilot was worth more than their contract said. Same with Pinnacle, same with Trans States.
I have a friend that went to GoJet because he is from STL. That was his personal decision and its his career, but every time I talk to him I make sure he realizes the affect his employment has on our mutual friends that are now furloughed from TSA. I make sure to tell him he is a REPLACEMENT WORKER.
Its not personal, its business...bit when your decisions (or those of another pilot group) start affecting someone else's quality of life, compensation or career expectations, it gets personal real quick.
07-26-2006, 09:16 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
Let's not forget about Pan Am (aka Boston Maine). They started off as an alter ego for Pan Am. They then laid off all the Pan Am pilots and transfered all assets to Boston Maine. So Boston Maine, original Freedom list pilots, Go Jets, and scabs will NEVER get a ride from me. And I'll do everything I can to keep them from getting hired.
07-26-2006, 09:41 PM
#15
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,403
Originally Posted by schone
When I (me or anybody else taking a job with GoJet/Freedom etc), apply, interview and later on accept an offer of what you consider a 'scab airline' - It does not necessarily mean that I delibratly wanted to hurt you, it might very well mean that I had no other options and continuing to live $12/hr HOBBS TIME versus a maybe very low but still guaranteed 65-70 hours a month of $18/hr - maybe at my point at life that made a big difference. Who are you (or anyother scab regime member) to be my judge for the rest of *MY* career and tell me that I have done the wrong thing?
OK, looking at it from a strictly business perspective, you need a job and are willing to to do anything to get it. Well, I have a job and a family to feed and I don't want to lose it simply because YOU want my job.
Since most alter-ego scabs are really in it for the upgrade, I'll fight back by hitting you where it hurts...you will be on a list that will outlive you, and being on that list may very well cost you your airline future. Hopefully the fear of losing your major airline opportunity will keep you in line, even if your internal moral compass is broke-d*ck.
I WILL be your judge in the future. I, or one of many folks like me, will certainly deny you a jumpseat ride (maybe on your way to something important), and with a little luck one of us will be involved in hiring at a major airline someday. Also, I bet you didn't know that some major airlines post the names of ALL prospective new hires for ALL of their rank-and-file pilots to review. If ANY one pilot doesn't like a name, he simply puts in a word to the chief pilot...
BTW, the ALPA master scab list goes back to the early 1930's...
Sweet Dreams!
Last edited by rickair7777; 07-26-2006 at 09:43 PM.
07-26-2006, 10:42 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by schone
I was sitting here reading a few threads where conversations floats to the good old topic of scabs list and I have to wonder.
Why is it that I am the only one grossed out by it?
Here we are, telling younger people what they're choice of airlines should be based on somekind of a 'black list' (ya ya TSA wisea****), treating fellow pilots as if they were war criminals. As if there decisions had the effect of war autrocities against the rest of us?
Guys, seriously, how can you judge someone, working through life, without being in their exact position? Yes, I know everybody will say that we were all at that position, but for real, we haven't. Nobody has been in someone else's exact point in life to tell if that guy/girl did the right choice or not, and even if we did - different people different opinions.
Are you telling me that while blaming management you are willing to blame somebody who marely made a choice of either sitting at home waiting for the $24 dollars/hr job that never came, of finally taking the $16 dollars/hr job so his wife and baby could eat that night? Are you that unhumane?
Just remember that sometime ago.... maybe a little longer for some, maybe in the recent past for others, we haven't flown shiny airplanes with nice salaries. And if somebody is going to laugh about the salaries comment then let me rephrase and say, that it wasn't too long ago, that all of us weren't AIRLINES PRIMADONNAS. And for heaven's sake, please stop that 'if I suffered and waited, they can wait too' attitude. That's exactly what makes management stronger and us weak. That's why while we struggle to maintain our $21 dollars/hr WAGE, they maintain thier $800,000 /yr SALARY.
Please, feel free to comment as I know everybody will. Please explain to me where it is that I am so wrong at accepting people for face value.
Why is it that I am the only one grossed out by it?
Here we are, telling younger people what they're choice of airlines should be based on somekind of a 'black list' (ya ya TSA wisea****), treating fellow pilots as if they were war criminals. As if there decisions had the effect of war autrocities against the rest of us?
Guys, seriously, how can you judge someone, working through life, without being in their exact position? Yes, I know everybody will say that we were all at that position, but for real, we haven't. Nobody has been in someone else's exact point in life to tell if that guy/girl did the right choice or not, and even if we did - different people different opinions.
Are you telling me that while blaming management you are willing to blame somebody who marely made a choice of either sitting at home waiting for the $24 dollars/hr job that never came, of finally taking the $16 dollars/hr job so his wife and baby could eat that night? Are you that unhumane?
Just remember that sometime ago.... maybe a little longer for some, maybe in the recent past for others, we haven't flown shiny airplanes with nice salaries. And if somebody is going to laugh about the salaries comment then let me rephrase and say, that it wasn't too long ago, that all of us weren't AIRLINES PRIMADONNAS. And for heaven's sake, please stop that 'if I suffered and waited, they can wait too' attitude. That's exactly what makes management stronger and us weak. That's why while we struggle to maintain our $21 dollars/hr WAGE, they maintain thier $800,000 /yr SALARY.
Please, feel free to comment as I know everybody will. Please explain to me where it is that I am so wrong at accepting people for face value.
Last edited by Eric Stratton; 07-26-2006 at 10:46 PM.
07-27-2006, 02:06 AM
#17
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Captain 767
Posts: 91
Just my 2 cents, and I AM a 121 large airplane pilot..
If I were a ALPA card carrying TWA pilot who got put on the street with no job by AMR and went to one of these alter-egos to feed my family, am I a scab..?
If I were a ALPA card carrying USAir pilot who got put on the street after 20 years so that an America West pilot with 2 years (also ALPA) senority could fly my jet, and went to an alter-ego to feed my family, am I a scab?
If I were a Midway Pilot, Mesaba Pilot, AirWis, PanAm 3, and the current list goes on and on..
I worked with a bunch of Eastern guys in my previous life, from both sides of the fence, and it is very interesting to get their prospective.. Sometimes the problem isn't the person, it is the lack of guidence from the "leaders" of ALPA..
ok, maybe 3 cents...
If I were a ALPA card carrying TWA pilot who got put on the street with no job by AMR and went to one of these alter-egos to feed my family, am I a scab..?
If I were a ALPA card carrying USAir pilot who got put on the street after 20 years so that an America West pilot with 2 years (also ALPA) senority could fly my jet, and went to an alter-ego to feed my family, am I a scab?
If I were a Midway Pilot, Mesaba Pilot, AirWis, PanAm 3, and the current list goes on and on..
I worked with a bunch of Eastern guys in my previous life, from both sides of the fence, and it is very interesting to get their prospective.. Sometimes the problem isn't the person, it is the lack of guidence from the "leaders" of ALPA..
ok, maybe 3 cents...
07-27-2006, 03:09 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: School Bus
Posts: 134
C'mon...
Originally Posted by schone
Are you telling me that while blaming management you are willing to blame somebody who marely made a choice of either sitting at home waiting for the $24 dollars/hr job that never came, of finally taking the $16 dollars/hr job so his wife and baby could eat that night? Are you that unhumane?
Look, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but seriously, there are other options. I don't think the "feed the family" excuse cuts it. You can go get a job waiting tables at Applebees and make more money than a first year regional FO job.
The point is simple: you are hurting other pilots who have put in their time and their families, just as much or more as you are hurting yourself by not taking the job.
07-27-2006, 07:36 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by EK Birdcage
Sometimes the problem isn't the person, it is the lack of guidence from the "leaders" of ALPA..
07-27-2006, 07:48 AM
#20
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,618
What would you folks like "ALPA" to do?
After all, ALPA is not some mysterious organization with unknowns up in Herndon...ALPA is every pilot with a card, every pilot with a pen, and every pilot who *****es about how ALPA has failed them without offering any suggestions or volunteering any of their own time to help the cause.
After all, ALPA is not some mysterious organization with unknowns up in Herndon...ALPA is every pilot with a card, every pilot with a pen, and every pilot who *****es about how ALPA has failed them without offering any suggestions or volunteering any of their own time to help the cause.
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