TedStryker

Want us to call you a waaaambulance? What exactly is the alternative? If the union didn't exist, it would be your employer who would be doing the crying, whining, bullying, lying, cheating, stealing, threatening, and coercion. Give us a break from the drama.

JetDaily

When my children were very little, they would sometimes call other people names. Then, I would teach them to be mature, and they finally grew up.

Union goons have NEVER and WILL NEVER grow up. To say that ALPA, and other unions, don't condone name-calling, coercion, and fear tactics, is a blatant lie. They are ruthless, childish, muisguided individuals who are to be pitied and avoided....and SUED if they break the law.

The good news is that people are finally waking up to the lies of the union bosses. Turns out that their lies are much worse than the lies of some "evil" managements and CEOs.

Oh, MY!

JetDaily

Drama? Getting your career trashed is dramatic, you're right. But, I don't get dramatic, though. I just post my thoughts and opinions.

If I get to the point that I think my employer is all the things I say about "my" union, I'll simply quit and find work elsewhere.

Thanks for sharing.

JD

JetDaily

I rest my case on the issue of maturity.

JetDaily

No response to a single point that I made. Typical. Get in the game, Ted.

ATCsaidDoWhat

While I readily agree that within ANY subset of people, there exists 5-10% group that acts outside the boundaries of good discourse, I cannot help but look at your post and question your words...

"When my children were little...they finally grew up."

The balance of your words are curious as well. They indicate to me someone who at some point decided to that the world owed you something and when it didn't happen, it was time to blame "the union."

Seventeen years and three airlines. Out of curiousity, which three? There is no doubt that ALPA has made mistakes...have you ever been involved? Or did you just sit on the sidelines and expect others to carry the water and make your life good? That's not meant as a flame, just an attempt to give YOU the opportunity to explain your serious anger issues.

I've got five airline uniforms and sets of manuals in the closet, collected since 1983. Some were aided by local ALPA mistakes, some by inept management.

One thing is sure; of you don't get in the game, you don't have a chance to affect change. I have...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's life. And THAT is the best lesson you can give your kids...

For the record...at one carrier, the union didn't do so well...at two others, great work was done and the union HELPED create jobs...it all depends on whether or not you have a willing partner (management) across the table. And yes, sometimes we did throw down the gauntlet...

Based upon your comments and your obvious union hatred, I am left to assume one of two possibilities: your posts are management inspired, OR you feel that companies like RyanAir should flourish and pilots should be played against each other, paying for their seats and cutting each others throats to see who will work for less to keep the job?

Care to comment?

JetDaily

I have no idea how you could construe that I feel the world owes me something. To the contrary, I am ONLY entitled to what I earn on my own. No, I am not management. I have only worked the line. I actually have worked for four airlines (one only for a month) and have also served nearly 15 years in the military between active and reserve time. I've been flying for over 31 years and have amassed over 11,000 hours. Not a contest, I know. Just pointing out that I do have credibilty. Have never walked the line, nor crossed the line. Thankfully, I have not been faced with that decision.

I disagree that unions "create" jobs. It simply does not happen. All the union can do is threaten, coerce, leverage, etc. to get what they want. However, even those days are coming to an end. In the future, productivity will be rewarded. In 2000 UAL pilots were given an industry leading contract. Not because they were industry leading pilots (Lord knows they were far from it), but because they had a tough union boss in Rick Dubinsky. That contract lasted about two years or so, and they have given back every penny and then some! As a matter of fact, that contract was one of the biggest reasons that UAL sought bankruptcy protection in court.

The NEW world of labor will be successful when it can bring REAL leverage to the table to negotiate. That menas productivity, efficiency, etc. These will be the chips to lay on the table when trying to get more from your company. Go to SWAPA's website. On the home page you'll read that they pride themselves on being the most productive and efficient pilots in the industry. Do you think ALPA would EVER try to boast such a claim? The organization is a complete embarrasment.

When pilots realize that they must produce to get a REALLY good paying job, then that will happen. I have seen some cracks in the dam at ALPA, so all hope is not lost. However, they have a long way to go.

I appreciate your comments, but please don't try to paint me as someone who is "owed" something by the world. I have never written anything to suggest that.

Yes, I have been active to no avail. ALPA does not want their membership to attend every meeting and vote on every issue. If they did, they would very easily set up a system where members could electronically vote from home or on a layover. No, they enjoy having the same 15-20 per LEC run the show. That's the way they like it, and that's the way it's going to stay.

If you would like, I can list the many failures of ALPA since I joined my company. The list is long and quite embarassing! JetBlue pilots (non-union) are doing great, making great money, and their company is hiring and buying new jets. SWA , the same with a minor slowing of their growth this year. However, they will HAVE to hire very soon. Skywest pilots (non-union) are industry leading or standard for their equipment despite annual attempts by ALPA to brainwash them.

I predict American will be in bankruptcy within a year and that their pilots will be forced to produce more. American simply cannot compete otherwise. American Pilots are the LEAST productive pilots in the industry. They are still paid industry standard or better, they have their pension, they have vacation override (I believe) and they have international override as well. Their senior widebody CAPs are living large! Again, any airline union will keep that status quo. Keep the senior guys happy, ****** on the junior pogues.

I've rambled enough....sorry!

JD

p.s. I am VERY much in the game. Perhaps not as you would define it, but I am there. I teach my kids what is TRULY important in life and it has nothing to do with airplanes or flying them. You may or may not understand, but that's okay too. Cheers.

JetDaily

Yes, I am angry, but I don't have anger "issues." If we were having a cup of coffee discussing this, It would be a very calm discussion, I assure you. I have fought the fight when it was necessary. However, life is too short, and I can't afford to waste time holding a grudge or being bitter. That is a poison that is deadly. There are many good people in ALPA. However, I believe they have bought into a bill of goods that is simply wrong. I have many good friends who still wear the pin and who are active at the LEC and MEC levels. I am ever the optomist that right will prevail eventually. I am happy to do my job and I believe I am lucky to have it. I wouldn't trade it for any other job on the planet.

Best Regards,

JD

Phantom Flyer

Without quoting Jack London's 1915 epistle, I'll throw my two cents into this discussion.

I'm one of the older guys who has walked a picket line and had to work with SCABS after a strike in 1985. In my book a SCAB is one who has either crossed a legally established picket line to fly an aircraft for a striking carrier or flown directly in sub-service for a legally striking air carrier. Period.

While I have a lot of respect for the Prime Minister (Rickair), I don't buy the definition of a SCAB to include those who fly for low cost or alter ego carriers. The inference is that they are indirectly taking passengers away from one of the mainline/big carriers. Nonsense. Some of the low cost carriers (Falcon Air) may have scumbags running the show and /or flying their aircraft but until they started flying Spirit routes, they were just pond scum and not necessarily SCABS. When their pilots actually flew a sub service revenue flight for Spirit, they became SCABS.

As for respecting everyone at face value, that's fine. Just wait until one of those SOB's crosses the picket line and gets in your seat. You'll change you mind very quickly!

G'Luck Mates

Phantom Flyer

Schone:

I thought you were starting a thread to try to examine an issue that's been in air carrier operations since the beginning of this century. After reading your posts, I realize that your efforts at flame baiting just flat miss the mark. Why ? First of all, you have difficulty expressing a concept in the written word, secondly, you can't make a complete sentence and lastly and perhaps most annoying, can't even spell correctly. Look at all the mis-spelled words !

Why don't you just go outside and play with your toys.

G'Luck when you grow up !