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08-14-2015, 07:50 AM
#9091
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 221
Yes I really should practice simple division and multiplication. I may get rusty otherwise.
Hand flying most RNAV departures without an FD is illegal.
I guess the science behind CRM and automation use goes out the window when ace pilots like yourself get behind the stick.
For what it's worth staying current by hand flying is certainly good technique, but why do it during a high workload segment of flight? And why deliberately disregard guidance given to you by the aircraft to prove you can do simple math and put a needle on a certain descent rate?
Lastly, during an emergency are you really going be concerned about making crossing restrictions on an OPD arrival? Good thing you practiced that!
Hand flying most RNAV departures without an FD is illegal.
I guess the science behind CRM and automation use goes out the window when ace pilots like yourself get behind the stick.
For what it's worth staying current by hand flying is certainly good technique, but why do it during a high workload segment of flight? And why deliberately disregard guidance given to you by the aircraft to prove you can do simple math and put a needle on a certain descent rate?
Lastly, during an emergency are you really going be concerned about making crossing restrictions on an OPD arrival? Good thing you practiced that!
2) Show me where it says it's illegal anywhere other than on the top of the chart if it's procedure specific AND on top of that it says in our manual that use of the AP and FD is recommended unless the flight crew member is doing it to maintain proficiency.
3) Not calling myself an ace, but I take the time to actually do my job and fly the airplane rather than put the AP on at 1000 ft and shove my thumb up my butt.
4) So all airplanes need to be equipped to auto land if we go by what you're saying. The two highest workloads during flight are the 5 minutes before and during takeoff and landing. We'll agree to disagree on automation man… or this argument won't end.
5) No I don't care about making crossings on an arrival. But, when you have an issue at 35,000 feet going 500 knots, it's nice to know it's going to take about 110 miles at 2500 fpm to get to sea level at 3 degrees. But go right ahead, punch it into your FMS and rely on your automation.
If my FMS takes a dump I'm not going to be able to descend via anyways, because due to loss of RNAV I'd need to be swapped over to an arrival that uses conventional navigation.
Nobody is telling you not to use your head. They're all telling you to use your head as well as the tools you have been given in the form of an FMS. You're supposed to be able to decide that you're going to start your descent XX miles from your crossing restriction, and your VNAV is supposed to agree. This is the exact same philosophy as using a localizer or RNAV to back up a visual approach.
Nobody is telling you not to use your head. They're all telling you to use your head as well as the tools you have been given in the form of an FMS. You're supposed to be able to decide that you're going to start your descent XX miles from your crossing restriction, and your VNAV is supposed to agree. This is the exact same philosophy as using a localizer or RNAV to back up a visual approach.
Your VNAV is supposed to agree? We don't have VNAV boss. It's secondary. It doesn't couple to anything.
08-14-2015, 07:53 AM
#9092
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,606
I have to get union involved every month, and it does eventually get worked out. As a matter of fact, just had Cliff award me a discrepancy from May...3 months ago. It's just a mess. I can't believe the company let things get this bad in a department that is so integral for morale. Getting paid correctly should not be an ongoing struggle. I do know the union is actively trying to get this payroll situation straightened out. Just hope it happens sooner than later.
08-14-2015, 09:18 AM
#9093
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Hand flying without a FD would not be legal.
08-14-2015, 09:48 AM
#9094
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 221
No it doesn't. Read it again. That doesn't say you need to use all three of those things. That thing in between is called a comma. You need to use a lateral deviation indicator, OR flight director, OR autopilot. Last time I checked.. we have lateral deviation indication.
If you read that entire AC … it explains how airplanes without FD's can fly RNAV SIDs and STARs.
08-14-2015, 09:52 AM
#9096
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 718
This thread official blows.
08-14-2015, 09:53 AM
#9097
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Left-out 145
Posts: 136
"Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes. The full- scale CDI deflection value of ±1 NM is acceptable."
No it doesn't. Read it again. That doesn't say you need to use all three of those things. That thing in between is called a comma. You need to use a lateral deviation indicator, OR flight director, OR autopilot. Last time I checked.. we have lateral deviation indication.
If you read that entire AC … it explains how airplanes without FD's can fly RNAV SIDs and STARs.
No it doesn't. Read it again. That doesn't say you need to use all three of those things. That thing in between is called a comma. You need to use a lateral deviation indicator, OR flight director, OR autopilot. Last time I checked.. we have lateral deviation indication.
If you read that entire AC … it explains how airplanes without FD's can fly RNAV SIDs and STARs.
Hold the phone. Round 3! I thought we had a knock out but he got back up.
08-14-2015, 10:09 AM
#9098
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 465
"Pilots must use a lateral deviation indicator (or equivalent navigation map display), flight director and/or autopilot in lateral navigation mode on RNAV 1 routes. The full- scale CDI deflection value of ±1 NM is acceptable."
No it doesn't. Read it again. That doesn't say you need to use all three of those things. That thing in between is called a comma. You need to use a lateral deviation indicator, OR flight director, OR autopilot. Last time I checked.. we have lateral deviation indication.
If you read that entire AC … it explains how airplanes without FD's can fly RNAV SIDs and STARs.
No it doesn't. Read it again. That doesn't say you need to use all three of those things. That thing in between is called a comma. You need to use a lateral deviation indicator, OR flight director, OR autopilot. Last time I checked.. we have lateral deviation indication.
If you read that entire AC … it explains how airplanes without FD's can fly RNAV SIDs and STARs.
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