LakeshoreFlyer

I listened in on one those family and friend webinars with United last month. The DEN Chief Pilot said they are against any flow agreements currently and don't ever plan to change. Their philosophy is why take someone you don't want.

LakeshoreFlyer

Thanks for the info on the ORD base guys. Much obliged.

CBreezy

We have have pilots for now. We just can't get them online. Last I checked, there were at least 15 Captains and 30 FO awaiting OE.

But yes, the company is going have stop sitting on their thumbs if they want to survive this growth.

FlyingKat

Not saying this will happen willingly. They are going to be forced into doing this if they want their regional affiliates to be staffed. United management is horrible, and is always playing catchup to Delta and American.

VoiceOfReason

Respectfully disagree. Flows are something mainlines have begrudgingly facilitated based on antiquated relationships. There just isn't the need for them anymore. UAL likely has a talent pool in the thousands and can hire just about anyone they want without having to take someone from a partner because it was their turn.

Look at what Delta is doing with 9E. They make their pilots interview, and there's about a 70% success rate. Better to know the guy is eager and hungry, than take a flow guy who can't hack it and wash out during indoc. These next five years will be VERY interesting in the regional world. Grab your popcorn!

FlyingKat

Flows will not happen because of staffing at mainline. They will happen because of staffing levels at regional airlines. Go to any flight school and all those guys are talking about are PSA, Envoy and particularly Piedmont because of the flows they have. Endeavor isn't really in the picture because it isn't a guaranteed flow, although the bonus there gets peoples attention. Also Delta's case is different because they have many more large RJs and were much farther ahead in the curve than United by redirecting flying back to mainline with 717s.

As this staffing problem at regionals get worse they will start trying to poach each others pilots with bonuses, street hire programs, and flows. If United doesn't get with it regarding flows, you will see their pilots getting poached. Think a Junior Captain at Trans States wouldn't look at a street captain job if the bonus was right and a 3-5 year flow?

This critical staffing issue is just getting started at the regional level and will get much worse. The only question is whether it will get to the level that mainline decides to start insourcing all this flying and sharply reduce flying at regionals. If this happens that big pool at mainline will dry up very quickly and they will need to move these pilots to mainline as well. This is already starting with Delta and the 717s, and is up in the air due to the TA rejection, but will likely be back on track once a new deal is approved.

FlyingKat

Anybody hear anything about 200% coming back?

Case I

Chief pilot memo last week counseled folks on abuse of sick leave - he claimed we are canceling flts due to lack of crew.
Having pilots in the pipeline and pilots ON LINE are not the same thing. We didn't get them in soon enough considering training capacity (a knowable quantity for those that are paid to manage such processes). We are behind and growth continues, so one might conclude we could continue to be behind.

Given above, it would seem logical - but that would mean folks upstairs are using logic...

CBreezy

That's not entirely a true statement. I'm not going to say management is guilt free from improper staffing. There are many other things they can do to include adjusting buffers on pairings. But, the inability of the FAA to certify additional LCA is the primary cause of this slow down. There are 9 people waiting and have been waiting for quite some time to get their come to jesus meeting with DD. You can't factor in government beaucracy in projection models.

Coneydog

DD is a clown on wheels. It boggles the mind that this guy is basically running this airline.