Trans States
04-15-2015, 06:50 PM
#7631
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: KCCO
Posts: 767
So because you are a "Captain" you have a right to complain. Gee willikers, I can't wait till the day… Not all the FO's are getting bypass pay either. The company is upgrading outside of seniority order to save a dollar, yet we aren't all on here whining about it. It is what it is. We will get ours, you will get yours. Just don't come on here and b!tch and whine. It's a good opportunity, that's why YOU came here. The company told me I'd upgrade in 14 months too… It hasn't happened that way. So should I come on the interwebzzzz and b!tch because they were liars? The company will get it ironed out, have some patience… clearly something some of you don't have Cap.
As far as the patience remark, most of us put in the better part of a decade at our old companies hoping things would change. I'd say we have plenty of patience. You are right that this still has the potential to be a good thing, but until we see those changes happen, coming here remains at best a questionable decision.
04-15-2015, 07:03 PM
#7632
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 465
The 2 major complaints seem to be scheduling and payroll. Both are a problem and need to be addressed. For what it's worth, these are not just limited to CQFO's. There are some flat out nasty people who work in scheduling, while some are just new and have no idea what they are doing. The payroll department (one person) has been atrocious. I have had to file greivances the past 2 months for cancellation pay. She doesn't even respond to emails anymore. Yea, I'm frustrated with this as well. With this being said, I'm confident KS will right the ship and get things running smoothly.
I also have had pay issues the past few months, and as soon as the Union was involved it was taken care of. Hopefully, you get yours straightened out. I will by no means defend the payroll or scheduling department.. both are terrible.. at least for payrolls sake.. my checks had been correct up until about 4 months ago.. and even then it was only one instance.. so i really don't have a lot to complain about there since we've beat the pay reports to death as well.
The guy writes a pretty solid post explaining why people are unhappy and out of that you get "because we're Captains?" Re-read it and take a bit to internalize and understand that folks gave up a lot for an opportunity that has turned out to be very different in a negative manner than what was sold not just by recruiters but by management types as well.
As far as the patience remark, most of us put in the better part of a decade at our old companies hoping things would change. I'd say we have plenty of patience. You are right that this still has the potential to be a good thing, but until we see those changes happen, coming here remains at best a questionable decision.
As far as the patience remark, most of us put in the better part of a decade at our old companies hoping things would change. I'd say we have plenty of patience. You are right that this still has the potential to be a good thing, but until we see those changes happen, coming here remains at best a questionable decision.
The rest of my response to you and him is below. I feel for you, because plenty of us have also been screwed. I'm just saying don't expect a pity party on here. Don't make this place sound like trash because reserve sucks, payroll sucks, or scheduling sucks. Up until the last few months, my experiences with at least 2 out of 3 had been better than my friends at XJet and Eagle. It's all perspective, and if you wanna b!tch about the pay issue, that's fine, but don't come on here and make us out to be scum.
@mav
None of us CQFO's are complaining that we aren't street CA's. In fact, we all knew very well coming in to this just exactly what it meant to come in on the bottom on the seniority list. None of us expected to have 18 days off and by any means. What we DID expect was for the things that were told to us in the interview and training process to be honored. What was told to us (and weighed heavily in the hard decisions we had to make leaving other airlines) and what has actually happened have been two separate things. So yes, we do have a right to complain.
I also understand that a few FO's that do have the time to upgrade have been bypassed. They are receiving bypass pay meanwhile holding a great schedule. I fail to understand how any CQFO is screwing anyone over. In fact, when the FO's senior to us get the time to upgrade, they likely will do so and go straight into a line. We are sitting reserve for THEM, right now. They won't have to. I would be ecstatic if I were in their situation. Also, CQFO's are absolutely needed to support the growth currently scheduled, so it's been somewhat surprising how poorly we've been treated.
And lastly, when you say you are sick of hearing about CQFO's complaining, I'll just leave you with this. Please understand the reason we ARE complaining is why we are qualified to be Captains, and you are not. For ALL of us, this absolutely is not our first rodeo. Most of us have extensive time at other airlines. A lot of us have extensive (read 4-5000 hours) in the EMB-145. We are older for the most part, and have spent many years in the industry. As you get older you are just less likely to put up with bull hit. Thats where we are. We are all grateful to have the opportunity we've gotten, but we just expect the things that we were told leading to the reasons we decided to come here, to be honored. I hope you can understand that.
None of us CQFO's are complaining that we aren't street CA's. In fact, we all knew very well coming in to this just exactly what it meant to come in on the bottom on the seniority list. None of us expected to have 18 days off and by any means. What we DID expect was for the things that were told to us in the interview and training process to be honored. What was told to us (and weighed heavily in the hard decisions we had to make leaving other airlines) and what has actually happened have been two separate things. So yes, we do have a right to complain.
I also understand that a few FO's that do have the time to upgrade have been bypassed. They are receiving bypass pay meanwhile holding a great schedule. I fail to understand how any CQFO is screwing anyone over. In fact, when the FO's senior to us get the time to upgrade, they likely will do so and go straight into a line. We are sitting reserve for THEM, right now. They won't have to. I would be ecstatic if I were in their situation. Also, CQFO's are absolutely needed to support the growth currently scheduled, so it's been somewhat surprising how poorly we've been treated.
And lastly, when you say you are sick of hearing about CQFO's complaining, I'll just leave you with this. Please understand the reason we ARE complaining is why we are qualified to be Captains, and you are not. For ALL of us, this absolutely is not our first rodeo. Most of us have extensive time at other airlines. A lot of us have extensive (read 4-5000 hours) in the EMB-145. We are older for the most part, and have spent many years in the industry. As you get older you are just less likely to put up with bull hit. Thats where we are. We are all grateful to have the opportunity we've gotten, but we just expect the things that we were told leading to the reasons we decided to come here, to be honored. I hope you can understand that.
04-15-2015, 07:19 PM
#7633
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: KCCO
Posts: 767
Agreed. Both we've talked about… I don't get how that makes this place trash. I really don't, yet we are trash… whatever I guess
I also have had pay issues the past few months, and as soon as the Union was involved it was taken care of. Hopefully, you get yours straightened out. I will by no means defend the payroll or scheduling department.. both are terrible.. at least for payrolls sake.. my checks had been correct up until about 4 months ago.. and even then it was only one instance.. so i really don't have a lot to complain about there since we've beat the pay reports to death as well.
"And lastly, when you say you are sick of hearing about CQFO's complaining, I'll just leave you with this. Please understand the reason we ARE complaining is why we are qualified to be Captains" What am I supposed to dive into there to find the secret meaning?
The rest of my response to you and him is below. I feel for you, because plenty of us have also been screwed. I'm just saying don't expect a pity party on here. Don't make this place sound like trash because reserve sucks, payroll sucks, or scheduling sucks. Up until the last few months, my experiences with at least 2 out of 3 had been better than my friends at XJet and Eagle. It's all perspective, and if you wanna b!tch about the pay issue, that's fine, but don't come on here and make us out to be scum.
Sorry, I agree with the last line whole heartedly… but unfortunately life's not totally fair. Everything they told me in my interview hasn't been honored either. Do you really think that every single airline keeps all their promises in their interview? He11, Eagle spilled a ton of garbage when I interviewed there too.. as did XJet.. and so did TSA. It's the name of the game. It's stupid, and I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
I also have had pay issues the past few months, and as soon as the Union was involved it was taken care of. Hopefully, you get yours straightened out. I will by no means defend the payroll or scheduling department.. both are terrible.. at least for payrolls sake.. my checks had been correct up until about 4 months ago.. and even then it was only one instance.. so i really don't have a lot to complain about there since we've beat the pay reports to death as well.
"And lastly, when you say you are sick of hearing about CQFO's complaining, I'll just leave you with this. Please understand the reason we ARE complaining is why we are qualified to be Captains" What am I supposed to dive into there to find the secret meaning?
The rest of my response to you and him is below. I feel for you, because plenty of us have also been screwed. I'm just saying don't expect a pity party on here. Don't make this place sound like trash because reserve sucks, payroll sucks, or scheduling sucks. Up until the last few months, my experiences with at least 2 out of 3 had been better than my friends at XJet and Eagle. It's all perspective, and if you wanna b!tch about the pay issue, that's fine, but don't come on here and make us out to be scum.
Sorry, I agree with the last line whole heartedly… but unfortunately life's not totally fair. Everything they told me in my interview hasn't been honored either. Do you really think that every single airline keeps all their promises in their interview? He11, Eagle spilled a ton of garbage when I interviewed there too.. as did XJet.. and so did TSA. It's the name of the game. It's stupid, and I don't like it either, but it is what it is.
04-15-2015, 07:30 PM
#7634
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 465
We aren't trying to trash the place, but offer an honest opinion from our perspective so far. Nobody is looking for pity. We're also not bashing the pilot group, for most of us the crews have been a bright spot. We're simply stating that our experiences have been vastly different from what was sold and what we expected. We all knew that it wouldn't be smooth sailing and unicorns and rainbows, but we expected better given the way things were presented. So far we haven't seen it. I hope it changes for the better and that the growth still to come improves everyone's quality of life.
Unfortunately you guys are one of the many that are burning right now. I can guarantee you that the computer system change over, PBS, iPads, and opening 2 new bases is higher on the priority list than the CQFO pay issue. I hope you guys get some more time in the left seat, which I think you will. H*ll, in 3 months or so that December class will hold Captain anyway.
[QUOTE=GetOffMyCloud;1862655]First time posting here, and I felt compelled to share my experience at TSA since that's probably one of the purposes of this thread.
I left RAH and started at TSA in December as a CQFO. I was very excited to leave a stagnant airline and finally get my 4th stripe. Throughout my interview and while in training all I heard was that I'd probably never see the right seat, that the company has no grievances on file, and they are totally different now and want their pilots to be happy.
I've been online for a month now, and I feel like I've been had. The vast of my majority of flying has been in the right seat, and scheduling has put me through a great deal of misery already. My very first day of flying ended with them not having a hotel reservation, and we didn't get to the hotel (that I found) until 4am. Apparently it's protocol here to make sure you have a reservation.
I will say to their credit that the DO and chief pilots are good guys overall, and if you keep your nose clean they will have your back; however, these guys don't have a direct impact on your QOL. The folks that do, such as payroll and scheduling, are not so nice. Apparently us CQFOs were hired without anything officially explaining our pay structure, so we've all been getting hosed while we wait for an elusive MOU to get signed. As far as schedule goes the reserve rules here are atrocious, and scheduling doesn't have any willingness to help you out at all. For example, on my last day of reserve I once asked to be released 50 min early to make my flight home, and they denied me that privilege.
TSA is growing like crazy, and it's probably a good place for a new regional FO since he/she will probably get a fast upgrade, but you might want to look into other places with a quick upgrade. I find a lot of TSA pilots like to say, "Well, it's better than it used to be" and talk about the cancellation pay and overtime compensation. That isn't good consolation for the fact that this is a crappy place to work. I know they aren't currently hiring CQFOs, but if they do again in the future, and you are thinking about it I would think long and hard (giggity) about it first because if you're like me and had 14-16 days off with a good line then QOL at TSA is going to be a rude awakening, and this CQFO is personally not sure if giving that up was worth the "upgrade".
That's what I'm talking about. Also, it isn't protocol to confirm a hotel reservation. I can count on maybe 1 hand the number of times I've had a hotel room snafu here. Sh!t happens, scheduling sucks just like it does everywhere else. It's not a reason to call this place crap.
It may be a crappy place for you, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone. I personally don't regret my decision one bit. Looking back this has been by far the best place for my QOL and upgrade time. I made more than any of my friends at other carriers my first year here, and that was well before the growth was ever announced.
I would expect as the company gets some of their bigger fires put out, things will get better. I may be wrong, we'll see.
I absolutely did not expect 14-16 days off or really any kind of QOL at all. My point was we were told we'd fly almost exclusively as captains, and thus make good money and gain valuable hours making the sacrifice in QOL worthwhile. Between flying almost exclusively from the right seat and payroll not honoring the pay structure we had been informed of we are not too happy.
My expectations of life as a CQFO at TSA were low to begin with, but it's been worse than I thought. They seem to live up to their crappiest reputations. As a veteran of RAH I thought I knew what a crappy regional was, but I have been proven wrong.
I hope this clears up any judgements that I'm a dingus with overwhelming unrealistic expectations.
My expectations of life as a CQFO at TSA were low to begin with, but it's been worse than I thought. They seem to live up to their crappiest reputations. As a veteran of RAH I thought I knew what a crappy regional was, but I have been proven wrong.
I hope this clears up any judgements that I'm a dingus with overwhelming unrealistic expectations.
04-15-2015, 07:34 PM
#7635
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 828
Amazing that you guys can't accept that guys are getting hosed by this. Keep the company kool aid coming though...
04-15-2015, 07:42 PM
#7636
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 465
You sir cannot read, I ( and others ) have said that the pay issue is being worked on. That's not, not accepting whatever you want us to not accept. All I've said, and it's the last I'm going to say it, is that this pay issue certainly is not on the top of their priority list. However, it will be resolved. Have a little patience.
It tastes so good though.
04-15-2015, 07:46 PM
#7637
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 828
Are they or are they not flying in the left seat essentially as a new hire? When they aren't flying in the left seat; Are they not making more than nearly every other regional FO on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year pay? Are they not making more than FO's years senior to them on their current seniority list? Explain to me this hosing you speak of.
You sir cannot read, I ( and others ) have said that the pay issue is being worked on. That's not, not accepting whatever you want us to not accept. All I've said, and it's the last I'm going to say it, is that this pay issue certainly is not on the top of their priority list. However, it will be resolved. Have a little patience.
It tastes so good though.
You sir cannot read, I ( and others ) have said that the pay issue is being worked on. That's not, not accepting whatever you want us to not accept. All I've said, and it's the last I'm going to say it, is that this pay issue certainly is not on the top of their priority list. However, it will be resolved. Have a little patience.
It tastes so good though.
04-15-2015, 09:58 PM
#7639
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: CFI/II/MEI
Posts: 481
I'm a fairly new FO here, and aside from the abysmal training pay, so far it has been a good experience (perhaps I haven't been here long enough to run into problems).
There has been some b*tching and wining from CQFOs. No place is perfect, and anyone that came here expecting it to be is pretty damn naive. With that being said, a lot of valid points have been brought up by the transplants from other airlines. The payroll issues I feel are a big one (and the CQFOs aren't the only people that are having issues), scheduling seems to be another big deal for all newhires and anyone on reserve. False promises and bs in interviews happens everywhere, but some places seemed plagued with it more than others.
Anyways, getting to my point, everyone here (most especially anyone on the bottom half of the seniority list) is depending on this company's abililty to attract another 400 pilots this year to staff this flying. It is really in ALL of our best interest for payroll, scheduling, recruiting, and the company in general, to get its sh*t together to make this growth possible. There isn't exactly a plethora of pilot candidates out there, and we do not want to be known as a place that makes a lot of false promises, has a terrible QoL, pay issues, etc. No regional seems to have a stellar reputation in all of those categories (it is definitely an issue with the regional industry as a whole, but that discussion is for another thread), but if we are towards the bottom of the list that does not bode well for our ability to staff this flying and for our company to grow. I feel one of the best recruiting tools will be for people, including the CQFOs with their ties to other people/places, to be able to tell former colleagues, friends, former students how great of a place this is, not how much they regret coming here or feel deceived by the company.
We do not have the shiny new jets that a lot of places have, but we seem to have a great group of people. If we can get some issues cleared up, make a few qol improvements, improved compensation, etc, that will really help us attract newhires, AND make the company a great place to work for the current pilot group.
There has been some b*tching and wining from CQFOs. No place is perfect, and anyone that came here expecting it to be is pretty damn naive. With that being said, a lot of valid points have been brought up by the transplants from other airlines. The payroll issues I feel are a big one (and the CQFOs aren't the only people that are having issues), scheduling seems to be another big deal for all newhires and anyone on reserve. False promises and bs in interviews happens everywhere, but some places seemed plagued with it more than others.
Anyways, getting to my point, everyone here (most especially anyone on the bottom half of the seniority list) is depending on this company's abililty to attract another 400 pilots this year to staff this flying. It is really in ALL of our best interest for payroll, scheduling, recruiting, and the company in general, to get its sh*t together to make this growth possible. There isn't exactly a plethora of pilot candidates out there, and we do not want to be known as a place that makes a lot of false promises, has a terrible QoL, pay issues, etc. No regional seems to have a stellar reputation in all of those categories (it is definitely an issue with the regional industry as a whole, but that discussion is for another thread), but if we are towards the bottom of the list that does not bode well for our ability to staff this flying and for our company to grow. I feel one of the best recruiting tools will be for people, including the CQFOs with their ties to other people/places, to be able to tell former colleagues, friends, former students how great of a place this is, not how much they regret coming here or feel deceived by the company.
We do not have the shiny new jets that a lot of places have, but we seem to have a great group of people. If we can get some issues cleared up, make a few qol improvements, improved compensation, etc, that will really help us attract newhires, AND make the company a great place to work for the current pilot group.
04-15-2015, 09:59 PM
#7640
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 161
So because you are a "Captain" you have a right to complain. Gee willikers, I can't wait till the day… Not all the FO's are getting bypass pay either. The company is upgrading outside of seniority order to save a dollar, yet we aren't all on here whining about it. It is what it is. We will get ours, you will get yours. Just don't come on here and b!tch and whine. It's a good opportunity, that's why YOU came here. The company told me I'd upgrade in 14 months too… It hasn't happened that way. So should I come on the interwebzzzz and b!tch because they were liars? The company will get it ironed out, have some patience… clearly something some of you don't have Cap.
People who have recently been hired here have laid out in detail their honest opinion and experience here. I came here with the highest of hopes and my eyes as open as possible. I took the promises from the company with a grain of salt to the extent that I wanted to be realistic about what i was getting myself into. Hired at 3200 TT with 2700 in the 145 I was told that i would upgrade within months since they didn't even have enough Captains on property. Hired as an FO only to have them lower the mins to 2500 hours. No problem i thought. Talked to the union and KS and PROFESSIONALLY asked them to designate me as a CQFO. Made sense to me since they were hiring CQFOs like crazy at the time. Wasn't asking for anything they weren't already giving a new hire behind me. The answer i got? Go to he11. HUGE pill to swallow? yeah of course. Where did I find myself? Commuting to reserve in Dulles making about $700 a paycheck. Upgrade timeline extended to who knows when. But of course God forbid I "complain" or "whine" on here now that i don't see myself being able to pay my bills for the rest of the year. You guys respond by telling us how "it sucks everywhere" and "it is what it is" but do you actually GET what it is that we made this HUGE decision on? Yeah i left 16 days off a month too. I took the risk. I hated the fact that I had to but Industry forces and race to the bottom blah blah blah. The reality is that people were screwed. Intentionally or not they were screwed. it doesn't matter if they are the "highest paid FO in the industry" because that is NOT the bag of goods sold to them by the highest level of the company. I don't understand why you are so adamant in defending that. Most of us share the same common goal. Share the same struggles and sacrifices to make it to this point. No one is more deserving than the other. I get that. I don't feel "entitled" to anything. I've made my way my whole life. I paid for my flight training out of pocket. I know what it's like to make sacrifices. New hires are not attacking the pilots here. I like the people ive flown with here. It's not personal. But the way the company has handled this for BOTH new hires AND current FOs is not right. It just isn't PERIOD.
Now with all that said at the end of the day the shortest distance from A to B of becoming a Captain is to stay where I am. They have me by the ba11s and there is nothing i can do about it. Sorry was that too much "whining" for you?
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