Originally Posted by Nevets

Horizon, AWAC, and xjt have above average contracts. Everyone else, including TSA is below average or average and it's certainly debatable on where TSA falls on that list. So far from what I've gathered, they are below average. Twice I have listed the sections of your contract that were above, at, and below average. You can go back and reference them if you want.




Why is it funny? Management (mainline and regional) have been whipsawing us regional pilots because of pilot contracts. It's completely relevant. I don't believe your contract is above average, on the contrary. Now, if these aircraft were coming from, PSA for example, then it's aircraft (and pilots) moving to better pilot contracts. But that's not the case with some of these aircraft.

By the way, I really hope that you guys can now set the bar.




When exactly what your current contract ratified?




It is a whipsaw. But it's not because of TSA pilots. I don't expect any TSA to feel ashamed and personally I don't look down at them but don't take it personal when I say that I hope your staffing strategy fails.




Which ones don't? I know xjt doesn't but which others don't?

Originally Posted by Nevets

Horizon, AWAC, and xjt have above average contracts. Everyone else, including TSA is below average or average and it's certainly debatable on where TSA falls on that list. So far from what I've gathered, they are below average. Twice I have listed the sections of your contract that were above, at, and below average. You can go back and reference them if you want.




Why is it funny? Management (mainline and regional) have been whipsawing us regional pilots because of pilot contracts. It's completely relevant. I don't believe your contract is above average, on the contrary. Now, if these aircraft were coming from, PSA for example, then it's aircraft (and pilots) moving to better pilot contracts. But that's not the case with some of these aircraft.

By the way, I really hope that you guys can now set the bar.




When exactly what your current contract ratified?




It is a whipsaw. But it's not because of TSA pilots. I don't expect any TSA to feel ashamed and personally I don't look down at them but don't take it personal when I say that I hope your staffing strategy fails.




Which ones don't? I know xjt doesn't but which others don't?

Originally Posted by Nevets

Horizon, AWAC, and xjt have above average contracts. Everyone else, including TSA is below average or average and it's certainly debatable on where TSA falls on that list. So far from what I've gathered, they are below average. Twice I have listed the sections of your contract that were above, at, and below average. You can go back and reference them if you want.




Why is it funny? Management (mainline and regional) have been whipsawing us regional pilots because of pilot contracts. It's completely relevant. I don't believe your contract is above average, on the contrary. Now, if these aircraft were coming from, PSA for example, then it's aircraft (and pilots) moving to better pilot contracts. But that's not the case with some of these aircraft.

By the way, I really hope that you guys can now set the bar.




When exactly what your current contract ratified?




It is a whipsaw. But it's not because of TSA pilots. I don't expect any TSA to feel ashamed and personally I don't look down at them but don't take it personal when I say that I hope your staffing strategy fails.




Which ones don't? I know xjt doesn't but which others don't?

Originally Posted by Nevets

Horizon, AWAC, and xjt have above average contracts. Everyone else, including TSA is below average or average and it's certainly debatable on where TSA falls on that list. So far from what I've gathered, they are below average. Twice I have listed the sections of your contract that were above, at, and below average. You can go back and reference them if you want.




Why is it funny? Management (mainline and regional) have been whipsawing us regional pilots because of pilot contracts. It's completely relevant. I don't believe your contract is above average, on the contrary. Now, if these aircraft were coming from, PSA for example, then it's aircraft (and pilots) moving to better pilot contracts. But that's not the case with some of these aircraft.

By the way, I really hope that you guys can now set the bar.




When exactly what your current contract ratified?




It is a whipsaw. But it's not because of TSA pilots. I don't expect any TSA to feel ashamed and personally I don't look down at them but don't take it personal when I say that I hope your staffing strategy fails.




Which ones don't? I know xjt doesn't but which others don't?

Originally Posted by Pilottim79

Don't take it personal that I hope your company dies and crashes in flames.



Too late.

Originally Posted by CBreezy

You can't just swing your magic wand and declare a contract "below average" just so it fits your rhetoric. I've asked you several times to show your work and even listed the regionals to help. Comparing them to other "average" contracts, what makes them worse?

Originally Posted by tunes

You can shine a turd all you want..... Its still a turd

Originally Posted by FlyingKat

Became Effective August 1 2011 and runs through August 1 2015 and we begin negotiations on a new contract this spring.

Really this is just a bunch of mental masturbation. The TSA contract is what it is. The regional game is what it is. You can either be Don Quixote tilting against windmills or understand the changes of a dynamic industry and use them the best you can to your advantage and have as productive career in this business as possible. You can either go around ****ed off at the whole world, or accept change and count your blessings. I've seen and been through both and its a much better place to roll with the changes and count your blessings. What you do is up to you.

In the immortal words of Hyman Roth this is the business we have chosen....

Originally Posted by Nevets

Fair enough. But it's not good for regional pilots if the company with the best pilot contract crashes in flames. Every management will use that against you in negotiations. And that's precisely my point. If the opposite would to happen, the leverage is with the pilots instead.






And I've told you that I've done that at least twice in the last week in TSA threads. A simple post history search will give you what you want.



True, a few turds are shiny but most aren't.





Thanks for that. I honestly don't know who took concessions shortly before 8/11. As for fighting giants, if one pilot decides to stay at the better paying regional than go to a lower paying one, then I consider this worthwhile. Just doing my little part in trying to uphold the regional pilot industry. Again, no offense to you.

Originally Posted by Nevets

Fair enough. But it's not good for regional pilots if the company with the best pilot contract crashes in flames. Every management will use that against you in negotiations. And that's precisely my point. If the opposite would to happen, the leverage is with the pilots instead.






And I've told you that I've done that at least twice in the last week in TSA threads. A simple post history search will give you what you want.



True, a few turds are shiny but most aren't.





Thanks for that. I honestly don't know who took concessions shortly before 8/11. As for fighting giants, if one pilot decides to stay at the better paying regional than go to a lower paying one, then I consider this worthwhile. Just doing my little part in trying to uphold the regional pilot industry. Again, no offense to you.

Originally Posted by Nevets

Fair enough. But it's not good for regional pilots if the company with the best pilot contract crashes in flames. Every management will use that against you in negotiations. And that's precisely my point. If the opposite would to happen, the leverage is with the pilots instead.






And I've told you that I've done that at least twice in the last week in TSA threads. A simple post history search will give you what you want.



True, a few turds are shiny but most aren't.





Thanks for that. I honestly don't know who took concessions shortly before 8/11. As for fighting giants, if one pilot decides to stay at the better paying regional than go to a lower paying one, then I consider this worthwhile. Just doing my little part in trying to uphold the regional pilot industry. Again, no offense to you.