Trans States
11-13-2014, 06:07 AM
#5161
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 84
I am neither a riddle or atp grad and I am not complaining about my upgrade not coming when mommy and daddy said it would im complaining about our company inadvertently ****ing a bunch of current fo's.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
11-13-2014, 06:25 AM
#5163
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
I am neither a riddle or atp grad and I am not complaining about my upgrade not coming when mommy and daddy said it would im complaining about our company inadvertently ****ing a bunch of current fo's.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
As far as the "poor choice of airlines" comment....Really..??? You know that Trans States used to be furlough happy and had a different culture. Most regionals have troubled histories. The more stable, "better," regionals have long upgrades (which people will complain about) or they will get top heavy and then body slammed by their mainline partner due to costs. That or managment will just start a new regional to undercut your previously selected "good" regional.
11-13-2014, 06:28 AM
#5164
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 29
I am neither a riddle or atp grad and I am not complaining about my upgrade not coming when mommy and daddy said it would im complaining about our company inadvertently ****ing a bunch of current fo's.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
If you're currently furloughed from somewhere and come here for the hope of a quick upgrade and higher pay just becaude thats the best way to make the best of your situation and keep your qol on par with where you are at good for you. If you jump ship for somewhere so you can take my upgrade for yourself cause you made a ****ty choice of airlines to begin with you can go **** yourself.
Fair enough if you were a captain at your last job, you have a right to be captain here. You would ***** if the rolls were reversed and you know it.
11-13-2014, 06:57 AM
#5165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: EMB145 Captain
Posts: 193
Umm, because i'm senior to them by two years. You're right its not "my" upgrade. How bout we just allow senior fo's to start displacing and downgrading people as we meet upgrade mins then if there are no more upgrade slots. Ya know, since we'll be senior to them by two years at minimum. Cause that sounds about as rediculous and argueing that a bunch of 2015 hires should upgrade before 2013 hires which is what you're doing.
The fact is neither me nor them are any more entitled to an upgrade. Its just the time honored tradition of a little thing called a SENORITY LIST.
I'm simply worried that by the time I have the upgrade mins where they currently are still a year from now (1.5 years since i'm about to be on military leave for 5 months) there will be no more upgrade classes running and i'll have to wait another 6 months or a year or whatever on top of that when the demand for captains was there and high the entire time and a simple and minor shift in the upgrade minimums by 500 hours, or less than 15% and i'd have been able to enjoy the career progession of this growth that everyone else gets to. And i'm not the only FO from 2013 that will be in the same boat. Far from it.
And just because a bunch of people had to wait 5 or 10 years to upgrade at other companies or have worked at 5 or 6 different regionals doesn't mean that I should have to. That was a different economy and a different generation. I paid my $150,000 and taught for 4.5 years making no money just like everyone else. I've been building my career for 6 years too and working just as hard. That "I walked to school two miles up hill in the snow back in my day attitude" is bull****. Your suffering is not my fault and you shouldn't get any special treatment now because of it.
Here's a thought, how about get out of the regionals and go to jet blue or virgin or frontier or spirit or air cargo or corporate and stop fighting for entry level jobs that are beneath you anyways.
11-13-2014, 07:02 AM
#5166
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,606
Umm, because i'm senior to them by two years. You're right its not "my" upgrade. How bout we just allow senior fo's to start displacing and downgrading people as we meet upgrade mins then if there are no more upgrade slots. Ya know, since we'll be senior to them by two years at minimum. Cause that sounds about as rediculous and argueing that a bunch of 2015 hires should upgrade before 2013 hires which is what you're doing.
The fact is neither me nor them are any more entitled to an upgrade. Its just the time honored tradition of a little thing called a SENORITY LIST.
I'm simply worried that by the time I have the upgrade mins where they currently are still a year from now (1.5 years since i'm about to be on military leave for 5 months) there will be no more upgrade classes running and i'll have to wait another 6 months or a year or whatever on top of that when the demand for captains was there and high the entire time and a simple and minor shift in the upgrade minimums by 500 hours, or less than 15% and i'd have been able to enjoy the career progession of this growth that everyone else gets to. And i'm not the only FO from 2013 that will be in the same boat. Far from it.
And just because a bunch of people had to wait 5 or 10 years to upgrade at other companies or have worked at 5 or 6 different regionals doesn't mean that I should have to. That was a different economy and a different generation. I paid my $150,000 and taught for 4.5 years making no money just like everyone else. I've been building my career for 6 years too and working just as hard. That "I walked to school two miles up hill in the snow back in my day attitude" is bull****. Your suffering is not my fault and you shouldn't get any special treatment now because of it.
Here's a thought, how about get out of the regionals and go to jet blue or virgin or frontier or spirit or air cargo or corporate and stop fighting for entry level jobs that are beneath you anyways.
The fact is neither me nor them are any more entitled to an upgrade. Its just the time honored tradition of a little thing called a SENORITY LIST.
I'm simply worried that by the time I have the upgrade mins where they currently are still a year from now (1.5 years since i'm about to be on military leave for 5 months) there will be no more upgrade classes running and i'll have to wait another 6 months or a year or whatever on top of that when the demand for captains was there and high the entire time and a simple and minor shift in the upgrade minimums by 500 hours, or less than 15% and i'd have been able to enjoy the career progession of this growth that everyone else gets to. And i'm not the only FO from 2013 that will be in the same boat. Far from it.
And just because a bunch of people had to wait 5 or 10 years to upgrade at other companies or have worked at 5 or 6 different regionals doesn't mean that I should have to. That was a different economy and a different generation. I paid my $150,000 and taught for 4.5 years making no money just like everyone else. I've been building my career for 6 years too and working just as hard. That "I walked to school two miles up hill in the snow back in my day attitude" is bull****. Your suffering is not my fault and you shouldn't get any special treatment now because of it.
Here's a thought, how about get out of the regionals and go to jet blue or virgin or frontier or spirit or air cargo or corporate and stop fighting for entry level jobs that are beneath you anyways.
Am I talking to a wall? I'll say it again. READ YOUR CONTRACT. As a union pilot, it is the EXACT thing you should have done when you heard they were hiring CQFOs. Someone earlier said the union won't allow them to hire street captains. I wonder why they make that distinction...
11-13-2014, 07:07 AM
#5167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Captain
Posts: 173
If you are 2 years senior to DE/CQFO captains then as soon as you have the time to upgrade and they need captains you will bypass the DE captains. They are the ones stuck with long reserve and crappy lines. Calm down.
11-13-2014, 07:12 AM
#5168
2 days off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Embraer Systems Analyst
Posts: 1,853
Not to mention if they're commuters they'll be gone within 12 months because of no movement. Airport reserve indefinitely!!!!
11-13-2014, 07:36 AM
#5169
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: Embraer and Boeing Repair Technician
Posts: 49
Umm, because i'm senior to them by two years. You're right its not "my" upgrade. How bout we just allow senior fo's to start displacing and downgrading people as we meet upgrade mins then if there are no more upgrade slots. Ya know, since we'll be senior to them by two years at minimum. Cause that sounds about as rediculous and argueing that a bunch of 2015 hires should upgrade before 2013 hires which is what you're doing.
The fact is neither me nor them are any more entitled to an upgrade. Its just the time honored tradition of a little thing called a SENORITY LIST.
I'm simply worried that by the time I have the upgrade mins where they currently are still a year from now (1.5 years since i'm about to be on military leave for 5 months) there will be no more upgrade classes running and i'll have to wait another 6 months or a year or whatever on top of that when the demand for captains was there and high the entire time and a simple and minor shift in the upgrade minimums by 500 hours, or less than 15% and i'd have been able to enjoy the career progession of this growth that everyone else gets to. And i'm not the only FO from 2013 that will be in the same boat. Far from it.
And just because a bunch of people had to wait 5 or 10 years to upgrade at other companies or have worked at 5 or 6 different regionals doesn't mean that I should have to. That was a different economy and a different generation. I paid my $150,000 and taught for 4.5 years making no money just like everyone else. I've been building my career for 6 years too and working just as hard. That "I walked to school two miles up hill in the snow back in my day attitude" is bull****. Your suffering is not my fault and you shouldn't get any special treatment now because of it.
Here's a thought, how about get out of the regionals and go to jet blue or virgin or frontier or spirit or air cargo or corporate and stop fighting for entry level jobs that are beneath you anyways.
The fact is neither me nor them are any more entitled to an upgrade. Its just the time honored tradition of a little thing called a SENORITY LIST.
I'm simply worried that by the time I have the upgrade mins where they currently are still a year from now (1.5 years since i'm about to be on military leave for 5 months) there will be no more upgrade classes running and i'll have to wait another 6 months or a year or whatever on top of that when the demand for captains was there and high the entire time and a simple and minor shift in the upgrade minimums by 500 hours, or less than 15% and i'd have been able to enjoy the career progession of this growth that everyone else gets to. And i'm not the only FO from 2013 that will be in the same boat. Far from it.
And just because a bunch of people had to wait 5 or 10 years to upgrade at other companies or have worked at 5 or 6 different regionals doesn't mean that I should have to. That was a different economy and a different generation. I paid my $150,000 and taught for 4.5 years making no money just like everyone else. I've been building my career for 6 years too and working just as hard. That "I walked to school two miles up hill in the snow back in my day attitude" is bull****. Your suffering is not my fault and you shouldn't get any special treatment now because of it.
Here's a thought, how about get out of the regionals and go to jet blue or virgin or frontier or spirit or air cargo or corporate and stop fighting for entry level jobs that are beneath you anyways.
Having just made the 1500 hr rule and currently being being one and a half months or so from upgrade, I can totally understand this mentality. I don't think I'll be in a position to be excluded from upgrading because of timing, but it is something that passed through my mind when I first heard the rumors of getting new flying, most especially since they've starting upgrading around 4 people or so for the last few months. After having given it some thought, I've come to several different conclusions about that mentality. It is valid from an egocentric point of view. You're looking out for yourself. I don't think that's a bad thing per se because you have to take care of yourself, but that mentality also applies to others. In other words, others are also thinking about themselves. From their point of view, they're looking to capitalize off a very unique opportunity to further their own career. I'm not sure it would be beneath me to do the same thing if I were in their shoes. This is where I then remember the following: Just because they want to capitalize off this opportunity does not mean it all automatically falls into place. In other words, these people still have to come through training. They still have to pass our training which, although it has gotten better, is still no freebie.
I just finished recurrent recently and from the sounds of it (from multiple check airmen) the quality of recent candidates hasn't been too good.
Considering all these aforementioned ideas I've come to the following conclusion:
If the company doesn't want to lower minimums, that's their decision and there's nothing I can do about it except to try and gain as much time as quickly as possible to secure and upgrade for myself. If these upgrades go to other more experienced or qualified pilots, then so long as they can pass our training I can't say that I blame them for furthering their own career. It's no more my upgrade than anyone elses. Lastly, there are still very many unknowns. We have to first see these people coming to claim the CQFO spots, then we must observe their pass rates, then we have yet to see if they can keep these planes on the runway without thrust reversers.
I want to say one last thing. You will never win that "my upgrade" argument either. The circular reasoning there is you must "put in your time" and provided you can make the argument that you have done that, you will only be met with "hang in there" or some equivalent. That's the way it is. This industry is inherently unfair and so is life come to think of it.
Probably a bunch of hot air here, but I really wanted to contribute my .02$ in this situation because I know exactly how you feel.
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