Mattio

I've been reviewing 121 again and it's been a while... Are reduced t/o min's always published on the jepp charts. i.e. You're never going to find a case where you can do reduced min's (below RVR1600) but it's not printed on the 10-9 in the takeoff minimums section, correct? Thanks in advance

Matt

EvilMonkey

Pretty much...the info on the back of the 10-9 is a service provided by Jepp (in other words, you won't find the same info on a standard NOS chart.). The information is derived from Op Spec requirements for reduced visibility takeoffs.

Mattio

Thanks man

EllisCoastal

Wanted to offer something a little more accurate to the previous post. Most 121 carriers are governed by their approved "OpSpecs" as mentioned above which may or may not match what is on the back of the -9 jepp chart. Most US 121 carriers have the same OpSpecs with regards to lower than standard takeoff minima which includes a category which is not on the jepp charts. This category is 1200/1200/1000 which has different marking/light requirements. For this category, it separates the requirements for day and night operations. For day, you need RCLM or CL or HIRL. For night, you need CL or HIRL. Makes sense right? You can't have just RCLMs if you are trying to takeoff at night for this RVR. The easiest way to memorize this category is to notice that it is almost identical to the RVR 1600 requirements, except that the "adequate visibility" definition does not exist and RCLMs cannot be the only thing you have at night.

So, is it really important to know this exists when looking at the back of the -9? Well lets say the visibility is reported as 1400/1200/1000. You look at the jepp chart and notice there is a 1600 and 1000 category. You are below the 1600 category, so you must use the 1000 category requirements which is 1) RCLM and HIRL or 2) CL. For the runway you are trying to takeoff does NOT have CL and you have a NOTAM that the HIRL are out of service. This would make you believe you are unable to go. However, knowing the OpSpecs has a separate category for 1200/1200/1000 which only requires HIRL or CL or RCLM, and it is daytime, you can go! Obviously the chances of you falling right into this category which will make a go, no go decision is rather slim, but it does exist. The OpSpecs manual is considered the bible for 121 carriers and is what should truly be followed.

You said you are reviewing 121 again, for an interview? In that case the jepp charts should be followed if asked a question about lower than standard takeoff minima with maybe a comment that you would follow the operators approved OpSpecs which may contain an additional category not published on the chart. Hope this helped.

sulkair

Great write up EllisCoastal. I just want to get double clarification on this because this was disputed intensely in one of our company ground schools some time ago. And the verdict was the 10-9 is controlling.

But you are saying 121 company opspecs ALWAYS trump takeoff criteria and minimums on the back of a Jeppesen 10-9 chart?

If my company opspecs approves 6 6 and 6, but the 10-9 requires 10 10 and 10 and RVR is 8 8 and 8, I can still go assuming of course lighting and marking requirements are met?

rickair7777

My understanding...

OPSPEC non-standard TO mins supersedes the TO min published on a standard 10-9 (unless your company has custom 10-9's which include your OPSPEC non-standard mins).

However, if the 10-9 publishes lower-than-standard mins, you cannot go below those. So lowest of OPSPEC or published, unless the published is standard in which case use OPSPEC.

sulkair

In your last paragraph did you mean to say ...the more restrictive of OPSPEC or published, instead of "lowest"?

Fly Boy Knight

According to the legend page included in the Jepp Charts:

"Publication of take-off minimums does not constitute authority for their use by all operators. Each individual operator is responsible for ensuring that the proper minimums are used based on authorization specific to their type of operation."

This means that your company's specific Ops Specs are the final rule as to what weather you may use to depart under IFR. Most 121 carriers' Ops Specs are the same (C078) and list the lowest authorized RVR takeoff limitation in a separate table before the actual paragraph wording begins (ie. C078's requirements are similar except for what YOUR company's lowest authorized RVR is may be different)

When figuring out your company's takeoff minimums, C056 - IFR Takeoff Minimums (d) says that...

"When a published takeoff minimum is greater than the applicable standard takeoff minimum and an alternate procedure (such as a minimum climb gradient compatible with aircraft capabilities) is not prescribed, the certificate holder shall not use a takeoff minimum lower than the published minimum. The Touchdown Zone RVR report, if available, is controlling."

This means that if the chart says anything that is MORE restrictive than your C078 (lower than standard takeoff minimums), then you must yield to the charts requirments

Example 1 = Chart says 500 TDZ/ 500 MID/ 500 RO but your C078 Lowest Authorized RVR is 600 TDZ / 600 MID / 600 RO. If this is the case, anywhere you see something lower than 600 ft RVR, simply replace it with a 600 ft RVR because you can't go any lower than 600 RVR (Ops Specs are more restrictive in this case)

Example 2= "Takeoff NA" means, regardless of what RVRs/Lighting/Rwy markings are present, you may NOT depart IFR from that runway because C056 does not let you use anything lower than what the chart says ("...published takeoff minimum is greater than the applicable standard takeoff minimum..."

So, the short version is...
- Ops specs are the real rule. Jepp puts the NORMAL breakdowns there for your aid but ultimately your ops specs are the controlling factor and...
- When dealing with ABOVE standard restrictions (not lower than standard), the chart (more restrictive) is controlling.

Fly Boy Knight

Much like Ellis said, your company's Ops Specs are the controlling word when it comes to LOWER than standard takeoff minimums. Your company is authorized to do whatever the FAA says and that is for their use only. The Jepp Chart section is going to tell you what the MAJORITY of air carrier ops specs are authorized to do but ultimately, if your carrier is authorized to do something, as long as it is in accordance with your Ops Specs, you are good to go regardless of what is listed in the LOWER-THAN-STANDARD Takeoff Mins section on the 10-9. Ellis's example in his/her post was a perfect example of this as well.

I say specifically LOWER than standard section because according to C056...

"When a published takeoff minimum is greater than the applicable standard takeoff minimum and an alternate procedure (such as a minimum climb gradient compatible with aircraft capabilities) is not prescribed, the certificate holder shall not use a takeoff minimum lower than the published minimum."

This means that when takeoff minimums listed in this section require something GREATER than standard, then you must follow the chart (regardless of what LOWER than standard authorizations you may be authorized to do).

The reasoning behind this is that C056 gives us the authorization to use lower-than-standard takeoff mins AS LONG AS nothing above standard is published...

C056(c) says.. "When a takeoff minimum is not published, the certificate holder may use the applicable standard takeoff minimum and any lower than standard takeoff minimums authorized by these operations specifications."

Like EvilMonkey said, in the NACO chart world, only RESTRICTIONS above standard are published in the front of the chart book. In the Jepp world, SOMETHING is published for every airport and if the FAA doesn't give any restrictions, then standard is assumed (and published on the Jepp Chart). Then and ONLY then can we use our ops specs for LOWER than standard takeoff mins. This also applies to things like "400:1 OR STANDARD w/ a min climb of xxxft/NM to xxft" because as long as we meet the ft/NM gradient, we are back to standard which means, we can apply our lower than standard ops specs here as well (ie: "...an alternate procedure (such as a minimum climb gradient compatible with aircraft capabilities)".

sulkair

Thanks so much Fly Boy Knight. Very comprehensive explanation. I might need a flow chart to keep all this strait. Basically if HIGHER THAN STANDARD mins are dictated on the chart , opspecs can't apply because they are specifically for lower than standard situations, and you're therfore bound by the chart. If lower than standard, or even just standard, are authorized by the chart then you can go as low as you can go using opspecs regardless of numbers actually printed on the chart. Did I get it right?