fly4food84

I know the DC-10 requires an FE and the MD's do not, but are the avionics in the MD's considered glass or half glass?

Are there any major differences between the MD-10 and MD-11?

Also, I know FedEx is retiring their DC-10's soon, but are they keeping the 727's and MD10/MD11?

determined2fly

The MD-10's are considered glass. As far as the retirement, the MD-10 and 11 are going to continue to fly.

fly4food84

Thank you!

FastDEW

Isn't the MD 10 just a DC 10 with a glass cockpit installed? If so, why would Fedex retire any DC 10's? Wouldn't they just update them to glass and keep flying?

fly4food84

The DC-10 requires a flight engineer. The MD-10 does not. They spent too much money transforming the DC-10's into glass and they realize that. I'm sure they don't want to make the same mistake twice.

FastDEW

I know that the MD10 eliminates the FE position. That is part of my point. Why would they not convert all of the DC10's over rather than get rid of them. Given the economy and the cost of new metal. Just my thought.....

capto

such conversion is expensive and takes time, not as practical as it seems. the md10 is an upgraded version of the dc10 which will be gone soon, there won't be many in operation around the world it will become harder to get spares, maintenance, plus thats three engines to keep up and I don't know how fuel efficient the md10s are. again doesn't make much sense expending so much $$$ on what seems very unpractical and even with the updates outdated. much better deal to go with a new airframe such as the 777, simple, fuel efficient, marketable ectz....

FastDEW

Thanks, this all makes sense. I was looking at costs of new metal versus keeping the old stuff around. I figure the 777F is about $200mm and that an old diesel is paid for. The conversion to glass is probably a few million $ and then even with the efficiency issues of 3 holes vs 2 the extra fuel would take a long time to pay for a new 777F. But then I guess I am ignoring the fact that the MD10 will only be good for another 10 years versus the 777F probably being useful for 30.

Still I think we will see a lot of DC10's in the air for years. Afterall the old DC8 is still haulin frieght and the 727 and 737-200 is still haulin passangers around in some countries.

Having never flown either the DC10 or MD11, I do have another question though - With the longer moment arm of the MD11 and the smaller rudder, along with the more nuetral feel to the MD11 - how do they type the MD10 as the same? It seems that the MD10 would handle significantly different than the 11 given the shorter body, larger rudder and less rear bias. Do they tune the MD10 somehow during the glass conversion to fly like the 11? Are they typed the same?

Adlerdriver

Folks,
777s aren’t the answer to everything freighter. They’re too big for some Fedex markets. They are also just now becoming available. Air France is the launch customer for the 777F and testing/certification for them only finished in late 2008. Delivery is scheduled to begin this year. So, when Fedex made the decision to convert DC-10s to MD-10s, it’s not like the 777 was an option.

I don’t think characterizing the MD-10 conversion as a mistake is accurate. We currently have about 70 and by spring of 2010 we will have 80. If Fedex thought it was a mistake, I seriously doubt they would have made that mistake 80 times. We will be flying them far into the future. They converted the -10s that they could. Some were leased and not economically viable to convert due to the terms of the lease. Some lessors were not willing to allow the conversion.

The MD-10 & MD-11 cockpits are basically identical with some small differences due to -10 systems limitation. They are all glass with 6 CRTs and an ongoing conversion to an electronic flight bag and HUD.

There were no changes made to the MD-10 flight controls. They still fly like a DC-10. There really isn’t a huge difference flying the aircraft. The MD-10-10s are underpowered (all 3 engines have less thrust than 2 MD-11 engines). MD-10-30s are a little better on the power. The rudder isn’t a noticeable difference. The elevator on the -10s is less effective than the -11 and requires more pull and an increased pitch change during flare. It’s a dual type rating encompassing both aircraft (actually all 3 if you consider the two MD-10s and MD-11). It’s really not that big a deal switching between them. Similar to going between 757s and 767s.

ilbartlett

Before the end of non-pilot jumpseat, I had the chance to ride in the first MD-10 conversion (N386FE) from PDX-MEM. In the cockpit, one can't tell that they're not in an MD-11. From what I have learned, FedEx "invented" the MD-10. The pilots did say that the MD-10/MD-11 is the same type rating. Basically, they're both awesome airplanes! It's great that FedEx is still using their DC-10s as MD-10s.