Spirit of NKS
01-24-2015, 05:50 PM
#9982
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Management will take the lowest cost route to their goal.
Do you think they offered this LOA because they love you?
This LOA is offered because it is a win for them. Period, end of story! *
Where's the win for us?
IT IS NOT THE GROUPS PROBLEM THAT THE MEC SENT OUT A POORLY CONSIDERED LOA!
*everyone here is happy that Spirit is profitable, no one is jealous. We just dont want their gain to come at our expense.
Do you think they offered this LOA because they love you?
This LOA is offered because it is a win for them. Period, end of story! *
Where's the win for us?
IT IS NOT THE GROUPS PROBLEM THAT THE MEC SENT OUT A POORLY CONSIDERED LOA!
*everyone here is happy that Spirit is profitable, no one is jealous. We just dont want their gain to come at our expense.
The point is out priorities as pilots are different, and we need to consider how it affects us as a pilot group before we start getting all bent out of shape about how much money they are saving.
01-24-2015, 09:26 PM
#9984
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 473
The main reason why the company wants this LOA is because pilots will have to do their DL on their off time, not on company time.
144 aircraft by 2021, say 2500 pilots. 2 days of DL not on duty vs 2 days of DL in a crew room, on duty, is 5000 days a year of lost productivity from your workforce where we are not moving planes and someone needs to move those planes.
Say the average pilot works 180 days of duty a year 5000/180= 28 pilots a year. So my math shows they need 28 pilots less a year just on savings for us doing it off the clock. This is a minimum, doesn't account for any conflict drops of any kind.
28 pilots will be 1st year FO pay pilots. Even on guarantee thats a million a year in savings just on wages, not counting healthcare, social security taxes, training, etc.
144 aircraft by 2021, say 2500 pilots. 2 days of DL not on duty vs 2 days of DL in a crew room, on duty, is 5000 days a year of lost productivity from your workforce where we are not moving planes and someone needs to move those planes.
Say the average pilot works 180 days of duty a year 5000/180= 28 pilots a year. So my math shows they need 28 pilots less a year just on savings for us doing it off the clock. This is a minimum, doesn't account for any conflict drops of any kind.
28 pilots will be 1st year FO pay pilots. Even on guarantee thats a million a year in savings just on wages, not counting healthcare, social security taxes, training, etc.
01-24-2015, 10:28 PM
#9985
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
Funny you should burn up some tires. We are protected on the job for any aircraft damage ( or any company property for that matter ). Why do we need a LOA that now requires a police report to prevent the company from charging us? This LOA actually removes a protection that already exists in the CBA.
They will actually make money from these pads. They buy wholesale but charge us retail 3 years later.
This sure isn't 'industry standard' without a sim card for data. Good luck finding a WIFI signal at the airport. Come in 2 hrs early to download your Jepp revision at 1 mgps speed.
This LOA single handedly provides the biggest financial gift to the company since Contract 2010. My vote is a big fat NO.
As far as Im concerned: work is work, money is money. They want to threaten pulling us into base to read out 10 inch pads? Bring it on!
They will actually make money from these pads. They buy wholesale but charge us retail 3 years later.
This sure isn't 'industry standard' without a sim card for data. Good luck finding a WIFI signal at the airport. Come in 2 hrs early to download your Jepp revision at 1 mgps speed.
This LOA single handedly provides the biggest financial gift to the company since Contract 2010. My vote is a big fat NO.
As far as Im concerned: work is work, money is money. They want to threaten pulling us into base to read out 10 inch pads? Bring it on!
Also, the notion that this is the first offer the company has presented to us is just ridiculous. This is obviously the result of a back and forth between the NC in the company. I can guarantee you that this is not the initial offer that the company presented the NC with.
Last edited by WelcomeToBen; 01-24-2015 at 10:41 PM.
01-25-2015, 02:31 AM
#9986
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 44
As far as trip conflict is concerned, here's what I think. Please correct me if I am wrong.
They are planning a 3 days training event. Most lines only have 4 days off between trips, which mean that no matter what it will be next to a scheduled trip. I dont know about you, but my lines rarely have just a 3 days event. In other words 4 days off, 3 days on, then 4 days off. (Unless you are senior enough to bid a 20 days off line).
So 3 days of training will most likely be next a 4,5 or 6 days trip.
I see that they will actually have a lot of trip conflicts.
Am I missing something ?
They are planning a 3 days training event. Most lines only have 4 days off between trips, which mean that no matter what it will be next to a scheduled trip. I dont know about you, but my lines rarely have just a 3 days event. In other words 4 days off, 3 days on, then 4 days off. (Unless you are senior enough to bid a 20 days off line).
So 3 days of training will most likely be next a 4,5 or 6 days trip.
I see that they will actually have a lot of trip conflicts.
Am I missing something ?
01-25-2015, 03:33 AM
#9987
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,432
Spirit of NKS
Here's to you FO still sporting the gold bars. That kind of boldness really lets us all know you're and Alpha male who don't give a sht! Show em who's boss!
01-25-2015, 03:41 AM
#9988
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
As far as trip conflict is concerned, here's what I think. Please correct me if I am wrong.
They are planning a 3 days training event. Most lines only have 4 days off between trips, which mean that no matter what it will be next to a scheduled trip. I dont know about you, but my lines rarely have just a 3 days event. In other words 4 days off, 3 days on, then 4 days off. (Unless you are senior enough to bid a 20 days off line).
So 3 days of training will most likely be next a 4,5 or 6 days trip.
I see that they will actually have a lot of trip conflicts.
Am I missing something ?
They are planning a 3 days training event. Most lines only have 4 days off between trips, which mean that no matter what it will be next to a scheduled trip. I dont know about you, but my lines rarely have just a 3 days event. In other words 4 days off, 3 days on, then 4 days off. (Unless you are senior enough to bid a 20 days off line).
So 3 days of training will most likely be next a 4,5 or 6 days trip.
I see that they will actually have a lot of trip conflicts.
Am I missing something ?
PCs can still have conflicts with the 3 day event, and if done in your base wouldn't require travel so the footprint is 3 days. So if they add it next to a 4 day, you could. But because we don't actually see the sim dates we bid on, they can just add the 3 days to any trip sequence after a 3 day or less and there won't be a conflict
Conflicts are done as we know them for training, LOA or not.
01-25-2015, 06:14 AM
#9990
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: A320 captain
Posts: 209
Was he sporting the hat too?
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