Spirit of NKS
01-20-2015, 06:18 PM
#9741
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320 Left soon middle
Posts: 488
The bottom line is: this is not a net gain for us. It is a wash somewhere between some pay loss for some convenience.
It is a serious gain for the company. Why are we voting yes on anything that is a wash for us and a gain for them? If we would have an industry leading contract I would consider a net wash vs net wash on both sides. I am a no also.
It is a serious gain for the company. Why are we voting yes on anything that is a wash for us and a gain for them? If we would have an industry leading contract I would consider a net wash vs net wash on both sides. I am a no also.
01-20-2015, 07:46 PM
#9742
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: A320
Posts: 90
You want me to do 9 hours of work but you're only going to pay me for 5 hours.....? That's all I need to know. Why would any sensible person agree to that?
01-20-2015, 08:45 PM
#9744
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Airplane
Posts: 2,385
I will be voting No as well, but would someone like to clarify the line where it said:
A pilot shall be paid five hours per day above monthly guarantee for up to two days of distance learning per calendar month.
Does that mean for every month we're paid 10 hours for distance learning? And, if it didn't, why would it say "per calendar month"?
Also, it says up to two days, but couldn't they just change the estimated time for the complete ground training to 9 hours and then only pay one day of 5 hours?
Obviously any change to the training curriculum would need to be approved by the FAA, but I'm sure they could accomplish that.
A pilot shall be paid five hours per day above monthly guarantee for up to two days of distance learning per calendar month.
Does that mean for every month we're paid 10 hours for distance learning? And, if it didn't, why would it say "per calendar month"?
Also, it says up to two days, but couldn't they just change the estimated time for the complete ground training to 9 hours and then only pay one day of 5 hours?
Obviously any change to the training curriculum would need to be approved by the FAA, but I'm sure they could accomplish that.
01-21-2015, 05:11 AM
#9746
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
I will be voting No as well, but would someone like to clarify the line where it said:
A pilot shall be paid five hours per day above monthly guarantee for up to two days of distance learning per calendar month.
Does that mean for every month we're paid 10 hours for distance learning? And, if it didn't, why would it say "per calendar month"?
Also, it says up to two days, but couldn't they just change the estimated time for the complete ground training to 9 hours and then only pay one day of 5 hours?
Obviously any change to the training curriculum would need to be approved by the FAA, but I'm sure they could accomplish that.
A pilot shall be paid five hours per day above monthly guarantee for up to two days of distance learning per calendar month.
Does that mean for every month we're paid 10 hours for distance learning? And, if it didn't, why would it say "per calendar month"?
Also, it says up to two days, but couldn't they just change the estimated time for the complete ground training to 9 hours and then only pay one day of 5 hours?
Obviously any change to the training curriculum would need to be approved by the FAA, but I'm sure they could accomplish that.
Just saying they can't overload you with numerous distance learning days, so it can be completed or administered over multiple months.
01-21-2015, 05:28 AM
#9747
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
That's what we have now!, isn't it, every grnd school day is a full day with "mmmmk" paid at 4 hrs/day.....but with this LOA/EFB/distance learning toord sandwich we don get the "drops/credits"we used to, days off can't get below guarantee, so our proposal has to comeback with a min pay of 6 hrs a day, and those days have to be scheduled as work days, not on your 22hr layover in Livonia after a red eye.
01-21-2015, 05:40 AM
#9748
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
that's what we have now!, isn't it, every grnd school day is a full day with "mmmmk" paid at 4 hrs/day.....but with this loa/efb/distance learning toord sandwich we don get the "drops/credits"we used to, days off can't get below guarantee, so our proposal has to comeback with a min pay of 6 hrs a day, and those days have to be scheduled as work days, not on your 22hr layover in livonia after a red eye.
01-21-2015, 05:50 AM
#9749
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320 Left soon middle
Posts: 488
I called some heads and heard some real good counter arguments just now.
Can we stop the company from having you come in on your day off into the crew room and sit for 9 hours, stare at your iPad and call it a ground school? No per diem. No hotel. You live in FLL, are based in LAS, come on fly in on your own time, get a hotel, and sit in the crew room for 2x9 hours.
They could teach us all how to use the ipad and the software during our next regular GS. So you are qualified to use the ipad. Once everyone is trained have fun in the crew room. Make sure you sign in with the intern. Btw doors training will be combined with your SIM in the future.
That changes things. I guess distance learning can be implemented with or without this LOA. I guess we have no leverage here.
Can we stop the company from having you come in on your day off into the crew room and sit for 9 hours, stare at your iPad and call it a ground school? No per diem. No hotel. You live in FLL, are based in LAS, come on fly in on your own time, get a hotel, and sit in the crew room for 2x9 hours.
They could teach us all how to use the ipad and the software during our next regular GS. So you are qualified to use the ipad. Once everyone is trained have fun in the crew room. Make sure you sign in with the intern. Btw doors training will be combined with your SIM in the future.
That changes things. I guess distance learning can be implemented with or without this LOA. I guess we have no leverage here.
Last edited by Normann; 01-21-2015 at 05:56 AM. Reason: some more thoughts
01-21-2015, 06:10 AM
#9750
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
I called some heads and heard some real good counter arguments just now.
Can we stop the company from having you come in on your day off into the crew room and sit for 9 hours, stare at your iPad and call it a ground school? No per diem. No hotel. You live in FLL, are based in LAS, come on fly in on your own time, get a hotel, and sit in the crew room for 2x9 hours.
They could teach us all how to use the ipad and the software during our next regular GS. So you are qualified to use the ipad. Once everyone is trained have fun in the crew room. Make sure you sign in with the intern. Btw doors training will be combined with your SIM in the future.
That changes things. I guess distance learning can be implemented with or without this LOA. I guess we have no leverage here.
Can we stop the company from having you come in on your day off into the crew room and sit for 9 hours, stare at your iPad and call it a ground school? No per diem. No hotel. You live in FLL, are based in LAS, come on fly in on your own time, get a hotel, and sit in the crew room for 2x9 hours.
They could teach us all how to use the ipad and the software during our next regular GS. So you are qualified to use the ipad. Once everyone is trained have fun in the crew room. Make sure you sign in with the intern. Btw doors training will be combined with your SIM in the future.
That changes things. I guess distance learning can be implemented with or without this LOA. I guess we have no leverage here.
"Ground training shall consist of all training conducted in a suitable classroom or at any place approved by the FAA."
Don't know if a loud crew room meets this criteria in our contract
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