Spirit of NKS
01-15-2015, 04:52 PM
#9581
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
love the Sig NedsKid!!!!!!
01-15-2015, 04:55 PM
#9582
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,432
This may be the case for senior CAs at Spirit who are closer in line of parity to Legacy CAs.
However, no way around it, FOs here are paid way less than Legacy counter parts, no matter of work rules or line bidding practices. Guys hitting 3rd year FO pay are now $40 less an hour than Legacy counterparts. Simple math would suggest that a 3rd year FO would have to credit 120 hours to match what a guarantee line would pay at a Legacy. And there is no way I would believe or accept that work rules at Spirit make it as easy to credit 120 as a Legacy carrier would be to credit guarantee.
This is the case for the entire FO pay scale and many of our Captains.
Some of our senior pilots dont agree with this math because it doesnt affect them, just guys junior to them and for some, those that need to still "pay their dues." Fact of the matter is that this airline is getting junior by the day and as a group, we need to focus on what is best for the majority of our pilots, not the 5%.
I agree the PBS is a huge concession, not something that I would vote for, and not something I think the company is going to want, but lets not act like Spirit is the only airline with work rules and it is somehow ok to have 3rd year Airbus FOs at $40 less than their counterparts and junior CAs flying 218 seat airplanes around at $130/hr
However, no way around it, FOs here are paid way less than Legacy counter parts, no matter of work rules or line bidding practices. Guys hitting 3rd year FO pay are now $40 less an hour than Legacy counterparts. Simple math would suggest that a 3rd year FO would have to credit 120 hours to match what a guarantee line would pay at a Legacy. And there is no way I would believe or accept that work rules at Spirit make it as easy to credit 120 as a Legacy carrier would be to credit guarantee.
This is the case for the entire FO pay scale and many of our Captains.
Some of our senior pilots dont agree with this math because it doesnt affect them, just guys junior to them and for some, those that need to still "pay their dues." Fact of the matter is that this airline is getting junior by the day and as a group, we need to focus on what is best for the majority of our pilots, not the 5%.
I agree the PBS is a huge concession, not something that I would vote for, and not something I think the company is going to want, but lets not act like Spirit is the only airline with work rules and it is somehow ok to have 3rd year Airbus FOs at $40 less than their counterparts and junior CAs flying 218 seat airplanes around at $130/hr
Dang near perfectly stated
01-15-2015, 05:41 PM
#9584
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 55
Not only do we have line bidding with unparalleled transition language, but we also won (after many years) the whole red/green debacle. Voting in PBS would nullify all of that and usher in a whole new era of grievances and arbitrations.
Also note that the latest FA TA there was a note that not only would there not be any PBS for them but no obligation to even discuss it in the future. I think this would seem to indicate that the company has resigned itself to line bidding as they would want to spread the cost of PBS implementation over both the pilots and FA's.
Also note that the latest FA TA there was a note that not only would there not be any PBS for them but no obligation to even discuss it in the future. I think this would seem to indicate that the company has resigned itself to line bidding as they would want to spread the cost of PBS implementation over both the pilots and FA's.
01-15-2015, 05:49 PM
#9585
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
PBS is a concession. Every airline that has PBS had it forced on them in bankruptcy. I think that just about covers PBS.
You're advocating for taking a pay cut every year. If my $ buys me less as a 12 year CA than it did the first year I upgraded, that's a pay cut, and not a contract I’m going to advocate for.
High hourly rates are designed by management to distract short-sighted pilots from the big picture. If you want to brag about a # on a forum in some machismo ‘unit measuring contest’, go for the hourly rate. That’s what’s going on it this thread. There's a reason AA is willing to offer industry leading hourly rates to their pilots (in a cost neutral contract, BTW) - and it ain't because they want their pilots to cost more than the competition.
We should be focused on how much $ ends up in our pocket at the end of the day, not the hourly rate.
Oh, and PBS is a concession.
Credit to Joey for the new signature
You're advocating for taking a pay cut every year. If my $ buys me less as a 12 year CA than it did the first year I upgraded, that's a pay cut, and not a contract I’m going to advocate for.
High hourly rates are designed by management to distract short-sighted pilots from the big picture. If you want to brag about a # on a forum in some machismo ‘unit measuring contest’, go for the hourly rate. That’s what’s going on it this thread. There's a reason AA is willing to offer industry leading hourly rates to their pilots (in a cost neutral contract, BTW) - and it ain't because they want their pilots to cost more than the competition.
We should be focused on how much $ ends up in our pocket at the end of the day, not the hourly rate.
- UPS has an 81 hour min guarantee. That's a 12% increase right there compared to Spirit’s 72 hour guarantee, with no change in the hourly rate.
- Southwest has a 5:15 min day (the rough equivalent of when you convert their 6.5 'trips for pay' to hourly rates). That's a 17% increase over Spirit's 4.5 hour min duty period, again, with no change in the hourly rate.
Oh, and PBS is a concession.
Credit to Joey for the new signature
01-15-2015, 09:07 PM
#9586
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 9
What is a CUG?
Though it looks like it's back up to 8 for the CUG, was a little less before I think?[/QUOTE]
Though it looks like it's back up to 8 for the CUG, was a little less before I think?[/QUOTE]
01-16-2015, 03:52 AM
#9588
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 653
PBS is a concession. Every airline that has PBS had it forced on them in bankruptcy. I think that just about covers PBS.
You're advocating for taking a pay cut every year. If my $ buys me less as a 12 year CA than it did the first year I upgraded, that's a pay cut, and not a contract I’m going to advocate for.
High hourly rates are designed by management to distract short-sighted pilots from the big picture. If you want to brag about a # on a forum in some machismo ‘unit measuring contest’, go for the hourly rate. That’s what’s going on it this thread. There's a reason AA is willing to offer industry leading hourly rates to their pilots (in a cost neutral contract, BTW) - and it ain't because they want their pilots to cost more than the competition.
We should be focused on how much $ ends up in our pocket at the end of the day, not the hourly rate.
Oh, and PBS is a concession.
Credit to Joey for the new signature
You're advocating for taking a pay cut every year. If my $ buys me less as a 12 year CA than it did the first year I upgraded, that's a pay cut, and not a contract I’m going to advocate for.
High hourly rates are designed by management to distract short-sighted pilots from the big picture. If you want to brag about a # on a forum in some machismo ‘unit measuring contest’, go for the hourly rate. That’s what’s going on it this thread. There's a reason AA is willing to offer industry leading hourly rates to their pilots (in a cost neutral contract, BTW) - and it ain't because they want their pilots to cost more than the competition.
We should be focused on how much $ ends up in our pocket at the end of the day, not the hourly rate.
- UPS has an 81 hour min guarantee. That's a 12% increase right there compared to Spirit’s 72 hour guarantee, with no change in the hourly rate.
- Southwest has a 5:15 min day (the rough equivalent of when you convert their 6.5 'trips for pay' to hourly rates). That's a 17% increase over Spirit's 4.5 hour min duty period, again, with no change in the hourly rate.
Oh, and PBS is a concession.
Credit to Joey for the new signature
All I have is the UPS point of view. I'm not complaining about UPS's guarantee but working more hours is not a pay increase. If I had you mow my lawn for once for $100 or three times for $125 who is getting the good deal?
01-16-2015, 06:42 AM
#9589
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Airplane
Posts: 2,385
Someone please refresh my memory. Bid packet says PC dates have to be submitted by 1600 on bid award date, but award time is at 1800.
Is that normal? I'm just submitting a PC date in the blind?
Is that normal? I'm just submitting a PC date in the blind?
01-16-2015, 07:34 AM
#9590
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
That must be a typo, doesnt make sense. I would email CrewTrain and ask them about how you are to fly back in time to submit bids when your schedule isnt out yet
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