Sailor

Thanks, and I know you meant Steve.

putzin

Ooops, couldn't think of his d**n name!! Lol

gonyon

If I have a carry over trip (sept 30-oct 1st) and have a trip on the 2nd that gets txc'd does the portion of credit on the first apply toward the credit for the dropped trip starting on the second?

That is how crewpay explained it. The contract isn't crystal clear

Dr Pepper

You do not get paid both the carryover and the tx'd trip. Only greater of the two.

gonyon

Hey Thanks!

NK Bumble Bee

? Wait, they're not overlapping trips. You should get paid for the tx drop...

The Juice

Nope. Your carry in will always go to "pay back" any conflict drops of that month, up to the point you are guaranteed at least the original line value of that month. So if you carry in 10 hours on days off (1st and 2nd) but they drop the 3rd-7th (worth 20 hours), you will not be paid the extra 10 you carried in on top of the 20 hours dropped for conflict. You will get the 20 in full for the conflict. You cant go below original line value for the month.

Now if you carried in 20 hours on off days and they dropped a trip with a conflict of 12 hours, the 8 hours difference would be added on top of the original line value. Its why carry in conflicts wont pay as well as a conflict that is created with a block of days ending on the previous month. With carry in days, you essentially have to work those hours to go against the hours they are dropping for the conflict.

I copied the FastRead addressing this and the magic formula that should be used to figure the correct credit.

Transition Pay

There have been many questions on how transition pay works and some misconceptions. The first misconception is that carry-in hours on days off is always paid above line value. This is not always correct.

So how is transition pay done? It depends on whether you use the Default Transition Option or the Elective Transition Option. But you can use the formula:

NLV = OLV – TD + TA + CI

NLV – New Line Value
OLV – Original Line Value
TD – Trips Dropped
TA – Trips Added (or reserve added use 4.0 hours per reserve day) CI – Carry-in

Default Transition Option

NLV = OLV – TD + TA + CI

Now you just fill in your particular situation and compare the OLV and NLV. Whichever is higher is your new line value for the month. The standard rules apply when the final schedule is published. If you over block on a trip, pick up extra flying on days off, or trade trips, you will be paid above your NLV, assuming your trip trade was a net increase.

Example:

Carry in 13 hrs on 1st & 2nd (days off)
OLV = 84 hrs
TD = 15 hrs
TA = 0
NLV = OLV – TD + TA + CI

So your formula should look like this:

NLV = 84 – 15 + 0 + 13 = 82.

The NLV of 82 compared to the OLV of 84. You receive the highest of 82 verses 84, so your New Line Value is adjusted from 82 to 84 and you start the month out at 84 hours. In this case, the trip drop was more than the carry-in, even though it was on days off. The end result is a net loss of two hours, but in this example, you would be pay protected to the original line value of 84 hours. If the carry-in was on days on, the outcome would have been the same.

If they added a trip or reserve day you could very easily have been higher than your original 84.

For example:

Carry in 13 hrs on 1 & 2 (days off)
OLV = 84 hrs
TD = 15 hrs
TA = 4 hrs (reserve day)
NLV = OLV – TD + TA + CI

84 – 15 + 4 + 13 = 86

Now you compare the 84 to 86, and you start the month with a New Line Value of 86.

JoeyMeatballs

^ excellent summary, thanks! I learned this a week ago when my pay went from 117->110, lol. Payroll explained it to me. Basically try to get a transition conflict without carry in

The Juice

Yeah, I learned this the hard way too, at first. CrewPay simply said "talk to your union." For the record, I have found our scheduling committee to be awesome when emailing about contract/pay questions.

I now try and avoid carry over trips when bidding conflicts. However, if you are junior (not you Joey), bidding trips with a 1 or 2 day carry over will help your chances with a conflict because senior pilots dont bid the lines that have trips starting on the 2nd or 3rd, they bid ones on the 1st for the conflict. This worked well the first 6 or 7 months and helped me score a conflict every month, even though I was junior. TIFWIW

Dr Pepper

This is not well understood by the pilot group. When you look at the above our transition language is nice but not the windfall that some people make it out to be. Very few lines end on the last day of the month or begin on the first for that very reason.