Spirit of NKS
04-02-2014, 07:32 AM
#7181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 123
So you are saying we should all be applying to Delta
All jokes put aside I was saying that on a grand scale Delta's position is much stronger than SWAs right now and will remain so in the near future unless there is some major event that manifests itself. That shouldn't be a secret to anyone here that even vaguely follows the competitive landscape of this industry save for maybe residents that live on one side of the metroplex.
04-02-2014, 07:38 AM
#7182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
Well this isnt the UAE and no one is on an employer-specific visa so you can do whatever you want
All jokes put aside I was saying that on a grand scale Delta's position is much stronger than SWAs right now and will remain so in the near future unless there is some major event that manifests itself. That shouldn't be a secret to anyone here that even vaguely follows the competitive landscape of this industry save for maybe residents that live on one side of the metroplex.
All jokes put aside I was saying that on a grand scale Delta's position is much stronger than SWAs right now and will remain so in the near future unless there is some major event that manifests itself. That shouldn't be a secret to anyone here that even vaguely follows the competitive landscape of this industry save for maybe residents that live on one side of the metroplex.
04-02-2014, 08:35 AM
#7184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 320
I think it behooves one to remember that just because he has a type rating in an airplane (or two, or three, or four, or five), it doesn't necessarily make him a financial wiz, a business wiz, an automotive wiz, a real estate wiz etc.
I could be wrong.
I could be wrong.
04-02-2014, 10:55 AM
#7185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 123
So where are you applying?
Also something to keep in mind. In 1986, Southwest had 79 aircraft and no critical mass either. In 1991 they grew to 124 aircraft. The fuel was cheaper back then but the ancillary fees today come close to equalizing the difference in higher fuel price. IMO, Southwest from 86-91 can be compared to where Spirit is today.
SWA prospered by staying away from the legacies and made their money by playing a game of hide and seek historically, especially during their growth years that you mentioned. Almost every time save for an attempt in DEN where there was another battle waging (and BTW that is certainly not a massive money maker nor is it high yielding much like PHX) they have been obliterated no matter if its through an acquisition or organic entry. PHL. Check. SLC. Check. SEA. Check. IAD. Check. When it was time to finally put all this nonsense behind in 2010/2011 once again SWA put on a clinic on how to be the punching bag in ATL. Big checkmark the size of Jupiter.
That is a significant strategic difference.
04-02-2014, 11:10 AM
#7186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
And we have no control whether our management will improve the metrics you analyzed. That's why I asked about looking elsewhere. I mean that sincerely.
04-02-2014, 11:31 AM
#7187
escaped
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
Enjoy reading all the posts.
I am sincerely grateful to all those who put the time and effort in writing and enforcing our contract.
Having worked as an ALPA volunteer in the past, I learned that giving up work rules for pay is never a good choice.
Work rules are nearly impossible to get back, pay is much more flexible.
PBS would deteriorate our QOL.
No conflict, no vacation / trip overlap etc.
I have worked with PBS in the past, and find that it only benefits the company and some very senior pilots.
I am currently on first year pay and would not want any short term pay increase to jeopardize our QOL.
After all, first year goes fast, PBS will be here for everyone's entire career.
I believe pay increases should be discussed on the basis of productivity and profitability, not work rules.
I am sincerely grateful to all those who put the time and effort in writing and enforcing our contract.
Having worked as an ALPA volunteer in the past, I learned that giving up work rules for pay is never a good choice.
Work rules are nearly impossible to get back, pay is much more flexible.
PBS would deteriorate our QOL.
No conflict, no vacation / trip overlap etc.
I have worked with PBS in the past, and find that it only benefits the company and some very senior pilots.
I am currently on first year pay and would not want any short term pay increase to jeopardize our QOL.
After all, first year goes fast, PBS will be here for everyone's entire career.
I believe pay increases should be discussed on the basis of productivity and profitability, not work rules.
04-02-2014, 11:50 AM
#7188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A319, A320, A321
Posts: 547
04-02-2014, 12:19 PM
#7189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 123
I'd want to spend my career at what I viewed as the strongest and best airline. Spirit has always been a high risk / high reward proposition in my mind and I'm ok with that. I wouldn't fault anyone for looking elsewhere and I agree that Delta is the #1 legacy currently. They have their own problems in the form of NAI and the ME3.
And we have no control whether our management will improve the metrics you analyzed. That's why I asked about looking elsewhere. I mean that sincerely.
And we have no control whether our management will improve the metrics you analyzed. That's why I asked about looking elsewhere. I mean that sincerely.
1. Spirit is becoming a lower risk outfit literally with each aircraft delivery. The financials, whether it be the absolute stock price or a market cap that is approaching 2x of B6 add cushion to this. No one knows the future but it I will tell you that I personally looked at coming here earlier and the risk thresh hold amongst other things was just too great. I dont view it that way anymore. I would have probably come a bit sooner but I had other things that needed to be resolved first.
2. Delta's problems with NAI/ME3 are in my humble opinion overstated on this forum. Im not saying that they are not a troubling precedent from a labor viewpoint and how it specifically relates to pilots but from a competitive standpoint NAI is sooner or later going to be brought down to its knees by the EU who I might add is right now drafting regulations as a response to FR who started to engage in this first with their MRS (and later Moroccan) bases that will also encompass the mostly unregulated area of labor law in the EU that this falls under. The ME3 are running on borrowed time and money and are not underpinned by sound economics in any form. Euro legacies have to worry about this because for them it is a short term problem and by the time the ME carriers implode they could bring down your IAG/AFKL/LH Groups of the world. Geography is something that fortunately is saving us again just like in various military conflicts. Im not dismissing the injustice that is being done by these carriers from a labor/human rights etc. perspective at all I am just making the point that we are for the most part shielded from its effects or in the case of the EU have a regulatory body that loves passing new laws.
3. To answer your question about looking elsewhere...I am in a different boat than you. Not better or worse, not less or more important, just different. I have no seniority, commute, minimum qualifications so to speak or really various work rules to think about. I am saying this because my reasons for going to an OA whether it be U2, DL or AS would be probably vastly different from yours except for the one where we would both seek sound financial footing from our employer.
I will answer you honestly and tell you that I could probably pick up the phone right now call any of my OA co-workers and employ myself at almost any US legacy or LCC with a 2 weeks notice typed by the end of today. That being said there is not one opportunity out there for me that I believe to be better than the one here when the whole package is considered. Lets start with the fact that in my role I cant commute. That right there unless I am making Anderson/Smisek amounts of money drives a personal distaste of living in ATL or commuting into the loop. I would hate my life before I even left for work, I already did that once at what is supposedly the pinnacle of employee relations in this industry and it is one of many reasons why I am where I am. In a hypothetical scenario that I could commute I still would not do it for my entrepreneurial drive that is telling me to build my own castle instead of sit around in someone elses and be bored out of my mind doing it. In that scenario I wouldnt hate my life before I left to go to work but I would hate it at work. Both equally bad. That is just where I am and as always YMMV.
04-02-2014, 01:47 PM
#7190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 715
I have a 3 part answer.
1. Spirit is becoming a lower risk outfit literally with each aircraft delivery. The financials, whether it be the absolute stock price or a market cap that is approaching 2x of B6 add cushion to this. No one knows the future but it I will tell you that I personally looked at coming here earlier and the risk thresh hold amongst other things was just too great. I dont view it that way anymore. I would have probably come a bit sooner but I had other things that needed to be resolved first.
2. Delta's problems with NAI/ME3 are in my humble opinion overstated on this forum. Im not saying that they are not a troubling precedent from a labor viewpoint and how it specifically relates to pilots but from a competitive standpoint NAI is sooner or later going to be brought down to its knees by the EU who I might add is right now drafting regulations as a response to FR who started to engage in this first with their MRS (and later Moroccan) bases that will also encompass the mostly unregulated area of labor law in the EU that this falls under. The ME3 are running on borrowed time and money and are not underpinned by sound economics in any form. Euro legacies have to worry about this because for them it is a short term problem and by the time the ME carriers implode they could bring down your IAG/AFKL/LH Groups of the world. Geography is something that fortunately is saving us again just like in various military conflicts. Im not dismissing the injustice that is being done by these carriers from a labor/human rights etc. perspective at all I am just making the point that we are for the most part shielded from its effects or in the case of the EU have a regulatory body that loves passing new laws.
3. To answer your question about looking elsewhere...I am in a different boat than you. Not better or worse, not less or more important, just different. I have no seniority, commute, minimum qualifications so to speak or really various work rules to think about. I am saying this because my reasons for going to an OA whether it be U2, DL or AS would be probably vastly different from yours except for the one where we would both seek sound financial footing from our employer.
I will answer you honestly and tell you that I could probably pick up the phone right now call any of my OA co-workers and employ myself at almost any US legacy or LCC with a 2 weeks notice typed by the end of today. That being said there is not one opportunity out there for me that I believe to be better than the one here when the whole package is considered. Lets start with the fact that in my role I cant commute. That right there unless I am making Anderson/Smisek amounts of money drives a personal distaste of living in ATL or commuting into the loop. I would hate my life before I even left for work, I already did that once at what is supposedly the pinnacle of employee relations in this industry and it is one of many reasons why I am where I am. In a hypothetical scenario that I could commute I still would not do it for my entrepreneurial drive that is telling me to build my own castle instead of sit around in someone elses and be bored out of my mind doing it. In that scenario I wouldnt hate my life before I left to go to work but I would hate it at work. Both equally bad. That is just where I am and as always YMMV.
1. Spirit is becoming a lower risk outfit literally with each aircraft delivery. The financials, whether it be the absolute stock price or a market cap that is approaching 2x of B6 add cushion to this. No one knows the future but it I will tell you that I personally looked at coming here earlier and the risk thresh hold amongst other things was just too great. I dont view it that way anymore. I would have probably come a bit sooner but I had other things that needed to be resolved first.
2. Delta's problems with NAI/ME3 are in my humble opinion overstated on this forum. Im not saying that they are not a troubling precedent from a labor viewpoint and how it specifically relates to pilots but from a competitive standpoint NAI is sooner or later going to be brought down to its knees by the EU who I might add is right now drafting regulations as a response to FR who started to engage in this first with their MRS (and later Moroccan) bases that will also encompass the mostly unregulated area of labor law in the EU that this falls under. The ME3 are running on borrowed time and money and are not underpinned by sound economics in any form. Euro legacies have to worry about this because for them it is a short term problem and by the time the ME carriers implode they could bring down your IAG/AFKL/LH Groups of the world. Geography is something that fortunately is saving us again just like in various military conflicts. Im not dismissing the injustice that is being done by these carriers from a labor/human rights etc. perspective at all I am just making the point that we are for the most part shielded from its effects or in the case of the EU have a regulatory body that loves passing new laws.
3. To answer your question about looking elsewhere...I am in a different boat than you. Not better or worse, not less or more important, just different. I have no seniority, commute, minimum qualifications so to speak or really various work rules to think about. I am saying this because my reasons for going to an OA whether it be U2, DL or AS would be probably vastly different from yours except for the one where we would both seek sound financial footing from our employer.
I will answer you honestly and tell you that I could probably pick up the phone right now call any of my OA co-workers and employ myself at almost any US legacy or LCC with a 2 weeks notice typed by the end of today. That being said there is not one opportunity out there for me that I believe to be better than the one here when the whole package is considered. Lets start with the fact that in my role I cant commute. That right there unless I am making Anderson/Smisek amounts of money drives a personal distaste of living in ATL or commuting into the loop. I would hate my life before I even left for work, I already did that once at what is supposedly the pinnacle of employee relations in this industry and it is one of many reasons why I am where I am. In a hypothetical scenario that I could commute I still would not do it for my entrepreneurial drive that is telling me to build my own castle instead of sit around in someone elses and be bored out of my mind doing it. In that scenario I wouldnt hate my life before I left to go to work but I would hate it at work. Both equally bad. That is just where I am and as always YMMV.
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