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Old 03-18-2014, 01:39 PM
  #7091  
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Position: A320 CA
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Originally Posted by A320Flyer
Plus you'll never see a pilot that participated in the 2010 strike be appointed to any management position. Ever. Orders from BBB. I know a couple of very qualified individuals that put in for the DFW Chief Pilot position. All "battle star" captains, and with managerial experience and exceptional resumes (masters degrees, former instructors, etc.). Not even one got a call for an interview. Instead, an F/O with less than 2 year seniority and 1 year of managerial experience (according to his LinkedIn) was hired. There's a reason for that.
CG has a battle star...
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:06 PM
  #7092  
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Originally Posted by gatorbird
CG has a battle star...
And was very short lived in the now extinct "Assistant CP" position. Nice guy, maybe too nice. Recently got that "banned from management" info by someone in Miramar. For what it's worth.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:55 PM
  #7093  
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Originally Posted by A320Flyer
And was very short lived in the now extinct "Assistant CP" position. Nice guy, maybe too nice. Recently got that "banned from management" info by someone in Miramar. For what it's worth.
CG was the rarity amongst our management group: one of us and actually on our side. He is a class act.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:16 PM
  #7094  
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Well said and completely agree. Joining NK management, unlike other major/legacy airline management teams, is not something one should brag about.
Are the generalizations really needed?

I have been to many a carrier in my relatively short life, in fact this is my 3rd one in this country. Ive talked to hundreds, if not thousands of different flight crews from layover hotels to work functions to jumpseats and I have yet to meet a pilot, or even FA group that when allowed to speak freely held a very favorable opinion of management. Regional. LCC. Major. Foreign. Any. I really dont take it personally but that being said it is sort of sad to see the generalization because the overwhelming majority of people do not deal with labor law/contract negotiations and what have you not. I get discontent with specific people about specific decisions that were made but honestly that sort of talk does not really do anyone good and not only does it kill airlines from both sides but as we are witnessing is bringing down this country.

Let me share a story with you. Once upon a time I used to work for a carrier that was about 3x the size of this one. We competed pretty successfully, made money but not NK like margins. We kept airfares low across the country, especially east of the big river, certainly a whole lot more than the "king of discounters." Our operational statistics spoke for themselves, we hammered everyone in MBR, OTP and just about any metric you could calculate. Majority of people at said airline loved the airline very much, sure people left here and there but we were growing, nimble and had dodged our fair share of competitive bullets. People worked together to get things done, money was not being wasted by anyone and our prime asset was our mentality. Sure there were negatives, including with contracts and pay but almost anyone you asked had a longer term positive guidance on the situation. For reasons that I will abstain from discussing in this particular thread one fine fall morning our life was changed forever with a newswire. Fast forward just less than a year and I traded some palm trees for connecting in Houston's secondary airport on a weekly basis. Instantaneously I was surrounded by people trying to hug me, get me to do stuff like put on skits, paint my face or just generally waste my time in the name of culture and other slogans. This by the people you have said that should "brag." I was witnessing the complete and utter destruction of better ideas, better ways of doing things. It hurt because our fairly small in the grand scheme of things group that made the one way trip cared about things such as "growth", "OTP", "financial performance" and yes even building good crew friendly pairings. None of this was important, certainly not as important as hiring an army of consultants in one department that would put the whole of Miramar to shame that did absolutely nothing. This hurt, I watched my carrier implode, something it is doing to this day, stumbling around like a dog that was hit by a car. However this was not the worst part, being mitigated with a pay raise and other benefit improvements I stomached it. What hurt the most however was the people that ran this fine operation get screwed. Its not the screwing in itself that was bad, I am in a position where I have no mass negotiated contract and "shield" that says I cant be fired if I **** in urinal A not urinal B so I get that business is business. What was bad was the way people were smiling and saying everything is OK while a 5ft samurai sword was being turned in someones gut. You probably have read about this in a certain "merger" sub-forum, and it only shows you what pilots know/hear. There were decisions being made that were completely illogical, completely stupid and completely devoid of any input from any group other than the one that has been "doing things the way theyve always been done." Decisions that would have far fetched implications on your pairings, pay, QOL etc. before you, any union or as a matter of fact anyone other than in a select few departments knew about. Very few, if any will have the guts to say this, certainly not any apologist. Now, I am not going to sit here and argue that pilots from airline X or airline Y did not or did get screwed from my point of view. To be honest I should probably educate myself better on what transpired here before but I have just been flat out busy in my relatively short time here. To add to that frankly I dont even have any direct control nor do I deal with any of you in a work function and I am here purely out of 2 reasons. A) I enjoy discussion + passing along stuff I hear before you guys do when I can and B) If I come across some suggestion, formal or even informal that I hear about and I have power to change I will do so. Maybe it will not affect life directly, but certainly could indirectly.

My 2c summary is that poison in the water is never good. I just got done with poison in the water on a much larger scale that had a multi-hundred departure hub along with NK FLL sized focus cities up and down the coast ticked the hell off to high heaven for good reason. The level was so high even the majority if not almost all non-union people were ticked off. Now that takes a lot of effort.

So yea, rather than go around the airport and brag about how much love there is based on decades of history (having little, if anything to do with the present), drink beer and play scavenger hunt around HDQ ****ing away the hard earned money you make flying and not giving a crap in this world I decided to say screw you, and go somewhere where I could park my rear in relative peace where instead of putting on plays and catering $30 lunches I could wage war against waste, stupidity, hostility under the guise of a smile.

In any case right now I spend probably about 50-60 hours of my week trying to figure out how to make money from a revenue NOT cost perspective. Trying to raise 15% margins to 18% and 18% to 25% which in turn adds more planes to our fleet which in turn gets more crews hired, new bases opened and your upgrade times minimized. Please let me know if I should stop this and focus on 5% margins, minimal growth or capacity control. I would be glad to suggest this and have reason to brag just like people on Amon Carter or in the new Taj Mahal that was erected down I-35 where I worked. Be a lot easier, I could go back to working max 30 hours per week, hire a crapload of MBA Ivy league grads to help me "value-capture" and "synergize" everything by popping in 30 more processes that need 30 more salaried positions.

I suspect I am urinating into the wind here anyways hehe

Last edited by RP4242; 03-18-2014 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:27 PM
  #7095  
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Originally Posted by A320Flyer
And was very short lived in the now extinct "Assistant CP" position. Nice guy, maybe too nice. Recently got that "banned from management" info by someone in Miramar. For what it's worth.
And remember...negotiations are around the corner.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:15 PM
  #7096  
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Originally Posted by RP4242
Are the generalizations really needed?

I have been to many a carrier in my relatively short life, in fact this is my 3rd one in this country. Ive talked to hundreds, if not thousands of different flight crews from layover hotels to work functions to jumpseats and I have yet to meet a pilot, or even FA group that when allowed to speak freely held a very favorable opinion of management. Regional. LCC. Major. Foreign. Any. I really dont take it personally but that being said it is sort of sad to see the generalization because the overwhelming majority of people do not deal with labor law/contract negotiations and what have you not. I get discontent with specific people about specific decisions that were made but honestly that sort of talk does not really do anyone good and not only does it kill airlines from both sides but as we are witnessing is bringing down this country.

Let me share a story with you. Once upon a time I used to work for a carrier that was about 3x the size of this one. We competed pretty successfully, made money but not NK like margins. We kept airfares low across the country, especially east of the big river, certainly a whole lot more than the "king of discounters." Our operational statistics spoke for themselves, we hammered everyone in MBR, OTP and just about any metric you could calculate. Majority of people at said airline loved the airline very much, sure people left here and there but we were growing, nimble and had dodged our fair share of competitive bullets. People worked together to get things done, money was not being wasted by anyone and our prime asset was our mentality. Sure there were negatives, including with contracts and pay but almost anyone you asked had a longer term positive guidance on the situation. For reasons that I will abstain from discussing in this particular thread one fine fall morning our life was changed forever with a newswire. Fast forward just less than a year and I traded some palm trees for connecting in Houston's secondary airport on a weekly basis. Instantaneously I was surrounded by people trying to hug me, get me to do stuff like put on skits, paint my face or just generally waste my time in the name of culture and other slogans. This by the people you have said that should "brag." I was witnessing the complete and utter destruction of better ideas, better ways of doing things. It hurt because our fairly small in the grand scheme of things group that made the one way trip cared about things such as "growth", "OTP", "financial performance" and yes even building good crew friendly pairings. None of this was important, certainly not as important as hiring an army of consultants in one department that would put the whole of Miramar to shame that did absolutely nothing. This hurt, I watched my carrier implode, something it is doing to this day, stumbling around like a dog that was hit by a car. However this was not the worst part, being mitigated with a pay raise and other benefit improvements I stomached it. What hurt the most however was the people that ran this fine operation get screwed. Its not the screwing in itself that was bad, I am in a position where I have no mass negotiated contract and "shield" that says I cant be fired if I **** in urinal A not urinal B so I get that business is business. What was bad was the way people were smiling and saying everything is OK while a 5ft samurai sword was being turned in someones gut. You probably have read about this in a certain "merger" sub-forum, and it only shows you what pilots know/hear. There were decisions being made that were completely illogical, completely stupid and completely devoid of any input from any group other than the one that has been "doing things the way theyve always been done." Decisions that would have far fetched implications on your pairings, pay, QOL etc. before you, any union or as a matter of fact anyone other than in a select few departments knew about. Very few, if any will have the guts to say this, certainly not any apologist. Now, I am not going to sit here and argue that pilots from airline X or airline Y did not or did get screwed from my point of view. To be honest I should probably educate myself better on what transpired here before but I have just been flat out busy in my relatively short time here. To add to that frankly I dont even have any direct control nor do I deal with any of you in a work function and I am here purely out of 2 reasons. A) I enjoy discussion + passing along stuff I hear before you guys do when I can and B) If I come across some suggestion, formal or even informal that I hear about and I have power to change I will do so. Maybe it will not affect life directly, but certainly could indirectly.

My 2c summary is that poison in the water is never good. I just got done with poison in the water on a much larger scale that had a multi-hundred departure hub along with NK FLL sized focus cities up and down the coast ticked the hell off to high heaven for good reason. The level was so high even the majority if not almost all non-union people were ticked off. Now that takes a lot of effort.

So yea, rather than go around the airport and brag about how much love there is based on decades of history (having little, if anything to do with the present), drink beer and play scavenger hunt around HDQ ****ing away the hard earned money you make flying and not giving a crap in this world I decided to say screw you, and go somewhere where I could park my rear in relative peace where instead of putting on plays and catering $30 lunches I could wage war against waste, stupidity, hostility under the guise of a smile.

In any case right now I spend probably about 50-60 hours of my week trying to figure out how to make money from a revenue NOT cost perspective. Trying to raise 15% margins to 18% and 18% to 25% which in turn adds more planes to our fleet which in turn gets more crews hired, new bases opened and your upgrade times minimized. Please let me know if I should stop this and focus on 5% margins, minimal growth or capacity control. I would be glad to suggest this and have reason to brag just like people on Amon Carter or in the new Taj Mahal that was erected down I-35 where I worked. Be a lot easier, I could go back to working max 30 hours per week, hire a crapload of MBA Ivy league grads to help me "value-capture" and "synergize" everything by popping in 30 more processes that need 30 more salaried positions.

I suspect I am urinating into the wind here anyways hehe
I fuggggggggin like this guy
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:25 PM
  #7097  
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 123
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I originally intended to do a 2 line reply but I got a bit carried away with that rant.

The look of disgust that besets me when I think about those sorts of situations reminds me of the time I was nonreving on U2 with a buddy of mine who at that time was doing lowly ATR driving for MQ building his time. We get seated next to one of their deadheading FOs and within a few mins into the conversation he says that hes driving the bus with 350 odd hours under his belt on a MPL. The moment that sentence was finished my buddies face looked like he just gnawed on dried up diarrhea that sat in a diaper for a whole day soaked in cat urine.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:30 PM
  #7098  
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: A320 Left
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Originally Posted by RP4242
Are the generalizations really needed?

I have been to many a carrier in my relatively short life, in fact this is my 3rd one in this country. Ive talked to hundreds, if not thousands of different flight crews from layover hotels to work functions to jumpseats and I have yet to meet a pilot, or even FA group that when allowed to speak freely held a very favorable opinion of management. Regional. LCC. Major. Foreign. Any. I really dont take it personally but that being said it is sort of sad to see the generalization because the overwhelming majority of people do not deal with labor law/contract negotiations and what have you not. I get discontent with specific people about specific decisions that were made but honestly that sort of talk does not really do anyone good and not only does it kill airlines from both sides but as we are witnessing is bringing down this country.

Let me share a story with you. Once upon a time I used to work for a carrier that was about 3x the size of this one. We competed pretty successfully, made money but not NK like margins. We kept airfares low across the country, especially east of the big river, certainly a whole lot more than the "king of discounters." Our operational statistics spoke for themselves, we hammered everyone in MBR, OTP and just about any metric you could calculate. Majority of people at said airline loved the airline very much, sure people left here and there but we were growing, nimble and had dodged our fair share of competitive bullets. People worked together to get things done, money was not being wasted by anyone and our prime asset was our mentality. Sure there were negatives, including with contracts and pay but almost anyone you asked had a longer term positive guidance on the situation. For reasons that I will abstain from discussing in this particular thread one fine fall morning our life was changed forever with a newswire. Fast forward just less than a year and I traded some palm trees for connecting in Houston's secondary airport on a weekly basis. Instantaneously I was surrounded by people trying to hug me, get me to do stuff like put on skits, paint my face or just generally waste my time in the name of culture and other slogans. This by the people you have said that should "brag." I was witnessing the complete and utter destruction of better ideas, better ways of doing things. It hurt because our fairly small in the grand scheme of things group that made the one way trip cared about things such as "growth", "OTP", "financial performance" and yes even building good crew friendly pairings. None of this was important, certainly not as important as hiring an army of consultants in one department that would put the whole of Miramar to shame that did absolutely nothing. This hurt, I watched my carrier implode, something it is doing to this day, stumbling around like a dog that was hit by a car. However this was not the worst part, being mitigated with a pay raise and other benefit improvements I stomached it. What hurt the most however was the people that ran this fine operation get screwed. Its not the screwing in itself that was bad, I am in a position where I have no mass negotiated contract and "shield" that says I cant be fired if I **** in urinal A not urinal B so I get that business is business. What was bad was the way people were smiling and saying everything is OK while a 5ft samurai sword was being turned in someones gut. You probably have read about this in a certain "merger" sub-forum, and it only shows you what pilots know/hear. There were decisions being made that were completely illogical, completely stupid and completely devoid of any input from any group other than the one that has been "doing things the way theyve always been done." Decisions that would have far fetched implications on your pairings, pay, QOL etc. before you, any union or as a matter of fact anyone other than in a select few departments knew about. Very few, if any will have the guts to say this, certainly not any apologist. Now, I am not going to sit here and argue that pilots from airline X or airline Y did not or did get screwed from my point of view. To be honest I should probably educate myself better on what transpired here before but I have just been flat out busy in my relatively short time here. To add to that frankly I dont even have any direct control nor do I deal with any of you in a work function and I am here purely out of 2 reasons. A) I enjoy discussion + passing along stuff I hear before you guys do when I can and B) If I come across some suggestion, formal or even informal that I hear about and I have power to change I will do so. Maybe it will not affect life directly, but certainly could indirectly.

My 2c summary is that poison in the water is never good. I just got done with poison in the water on a much larger scale that had a multi-hundred departure hub along with NK FLL sized focus cities up and down the coast ticked the hell off to high heaven for good reason. The level was so high even the majority if not almost all non-union people were ticked off. Now that takes a lot of effort.

So yea, rather than go around the airport and brag about how much love there is based on decades of history (having little, if anything to do with the present), drink beer and play scavenger hunt around HDQ ****ing away the hard earned money you make flying and not giving a crap in this world I decided to say screw you, and go somewhere where I could park my rear in relative peace where instead of putting on plays and catering $30 lunches I could wage war against waste, stupidity, hostility under the guise of a smile.

In any case right now I spend probably about 50-60 hours of my week trying to figure out how to make money from a revenue NOT cost perspective. Trying to raise 15% margins to 18% and 18% to 25% which in turn adds more planes to our fleet which in turn gets more crews hired, new bases opened and your upgrade times minimized. Please let me know if I should stop this and focus on 5% margins, minimal growth or capacity control. I would be glad to suggest this and have reason to brag just like people on Amon Carter or in the new Taj Mahal that was erected down I-35 where I worked. Be a lot easier, I could go back to working max 30 hours per week, hire a crapload of MBA Ivy league grads to help me "value-capture" and "synergize" everything by popping in 30 more processes that need 30 more salaried positions.

I suspect I am urinating into the wind here anyways hehe
I'm glad you're happy to be at NK. I am happy too. Sorry you weren't feeling the luv at your previous job. Baldanza is a smart manager focused on making money. I respect him. I do not have the same level of respect for NK flight ops management. I stand by my previous remarks that you quoted. This isn't Delta Air Lines.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:06 PM
  #7099  
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
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Everyone has their axe to grind, I have mine with certain other groups that I feel are below par to what I am accustomed too, not going to name them publicly but they do exist. Trying to get someone to come around and see your way of doing things is just about as hard as getting California to vote Republican.

FWIW - Last flight ops dept. Ive had dealings with was in shock and disbelief when things such as "one engined taxi" and "auto-throttles" were mentioned as fuel saving measures. Mountains were moved to do what OAs did for decades only to be crapped on when someone decided a certain airfield in the state of Florida was unsafe to operate out of except on the most sunny clear/calm of days. Nevermind the fact that subsidiary A and competitor B for years had absolutely no problems nor reputations for being unsafe. Nevermind that the pilot group and data supported a different decision. Never in my life had I wanted line pilots to stage a coup and take over a department that assumed less risk than a 45 year old accountant living in suburban Indianapolis driving a 4 year old Honda Accord. Frustrating to say the least.
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:46 AM
  #7100  
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Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 123
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627 should be here in around next months end. I can fill you guys in on the inaugural if anyone is interested.

As an interesting statistic (latest public data) - 2Q14 vs. 2Q13 we are scheduled to run 2,406 more departures (around +27 per day) offering almost 450,000 more seats while flying 567 million more ASMs.
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