Spirit of NKS
10-16-2011, 02:40 PM
#2971
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
We'll all know more once the Q3 2011 results come out. They will be available on 10/27/2011 at 1300 Eastern from the SEC or through your brokerage. Personally, I wouldn't EVER buy airline stock, however I do wish we would have negotiated some in our contract. I would have dumped it once the technicals looked as though it was topping out near a possible 52 week high and moved the money into some quality stock and ETF's.
I agree, the only problem I see with it, is that we wouldn't be in business for long after everyone DUMPS everything. I think.
So to work here and think that way, it would be like robbing from your own savings account, MAY BE I AM COMPLETELY WRONG (not sarcasm).
10-16-2011, 05:12 PM
#2972
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
Posts: 492
I think there is a flaw in that logic. One cannot 'dump stock' without someone else buying it. If you sell it for more than you paid, not only do you make money but the stock is then more valuable because the next person wants to see a profit from when he bought it. The only way stock goes away is when a company buys it back, and that is a good sign, because it means the company thinks has extra money at the time and want to lessen their liability (stock dividends, if they are paid out) and in turn keep even more money for the company. This in turn makes the reduced number of shares of remaining stock more valuable, and the stock price tends to go up (all other external forces remaining the same).
The market also expects normal profit taking from execs when they can, and the market doesn't get too uppity about that. That's part of the reason the execs have to announce they are selling it beforehand. If everyone sold it and then went bankrupt, there would be an investigation on insider trading, because they are not allowed to use foreknowledge of that event to influence the selling of stock.
So this is my not so short way of agreeing with you, in that I think the stock is tied to us forever, and everyone who owns is wants it to do well. Not that I would ever own airline stock either, unless it was given to us in our IPO
10-16-2011, 06:07 PM
#2973
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
I think there is a flaw in that logic. One cannot 'dump stock' without someone else buying it. If you sell it for more than you paid, not only do you make money but the stock is then more valuable because the next person wants to see a profit from when he bought it. The only way stock goes away is when a company buys it back, and that is a good sign, because it means the company thinks has extra money at the time and want to lessen their liability (stock dividends, if they are paid out) and in turn keep even more money for the company. This in turn makes the reduced number of shares of remaining stock more valuable, and the stock price tends to go up (all other external forces remaining the same).
The market also expects normal profit taking from execs when they can, and the market doesn't get too uppity about that. That's part of the reason the execs have to announce they are selling it beforehand. If everyone sold it and then went bankrupt, there would be an investigation on insider trading, because they are not allowed to use foreknowledge of that event to influence the selling of stock.
So this is my not so short way of agreeing with you, in that I think the stock is tied to us forever, and everyone who owns is wants it to do well. Not that I would ever own airline stock either, unless it was given to us in our IPO
The market also expects normal profit taking from execs when they can, and the market doesn't get too uppity about that. That's part of the reason the execs have to announce they are selling it beforehand. If everyone sold it and then went bankrupt, there would be an investigation on insider trading, because they are not allowed to use foreknowledge of that event to influence the selling of stock.
So this is my not so short way of agreeing with you, in that I think the stock is tied to us forever, and everyone who owns is wants it to do well. Not that I would ever own airline stock either, unless it was given to us in our IPO
Thanks for clarifying it. I also want nothing short of success for us.
10-16-2011, 06:59 PM
#2974
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320 Left soon middle
Posts: 488
My take on this price spike is that someone possibly knows something we don't and is willing to buy. Our market cap is over a billion with 35 frames that we don't own. I think we are possibly the most expensive airline out there. That is why I laugh at these merger rumors. Technically right now one could buy American for less than Spirit. That just shows us the sad state and the distorted realities under which financial markets operate. It is all about hype, expectations, and future performance. Good old values are not part of everyday investor decision making anymore because nobody is an investor anymore, everybody has become a trader. It is Vegas baby without the dollar beer.
10-16-2011, 07:26 PM
#2975
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 184
Lefty, no offense to you but the above is not true. Stock price is subject to nothing else but supply and demand. The two meets at a certain price for a given moment. So just because one buys and holds a stock and hopes to sell it higher, price will be subject to the opinion of other possible buyers and sellers. How people feel is determined by the information at that moment and could be completely disconnected from the price even as little as a minute ago. If future investors feel negative, those holding the stock will feel the same way as well because they are all drawing the same conclusions based on the same information.
My take on this price spike is that someone possibly knows something we don't and is willing to buy. Our market cap is over a billion with 35 frames that we don't own. I think we are possibly the most expensive airline out there. That is why I laugh at these merger rumors. Technically right now one could buy American for less than Spirit. That just shows us the sad state and the distorted realities under which financial markets operate. It is all about hype, expectations, and future performance. Good old values are not part of everyday investor decision making anymore because nobody is an investor anymore, everybody has become a trader. It is Vegas baby without the dollar beer.
My take on this price spike is that someone possibly knows something we don't and is willing to buy. Our market cap is over a billion with 35 frames that we don't own. I think we are possibly the most expensive airline out there. That is why I laugh at these merger rumors. Technically right now one could buy American for less than Spirit. That just shows us the sad state and the distorted realities under which financial markets operate. It is all about hype, expectations, and future performance. Good old values are not part of everyday investor decision making anymore because nobody is an investor anymore, everybody has become a trader. It is Vegas baby without the dollar beer.
Thanks for post! I'm going to bed now. Early show.
Oh and one more thing... Spirit has nothing to do with the stock now that the IPO is complete. If they did buy it back it should signal the market that Spirit believes it to be undervalued or they are attempting to reward the shareholders by driving the price of the stock up (supply and demand).
10-16-2011, 10:27 PM
#2976
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
Posts: 492
Lefty, no offense to you but the above is not true. Stock price is subject to nothing else but supply and demand. The two meets at a certain price for a given moment. So just because one buys and holds a stock and hopes to sell it higher, price will be subject to the opinion of other possible buyers and sellers. How people feel is determined by the information at that moment and could be completely disconnected from the price even as little as a minute ago. If future investors feel negative, those holding the stock will feel the same way as well because they are all drawing the same conclusions based on the same information.
My take on this price spike is that someone possibly knows something we don't and is willing to buy. Our market cap is over a billion with 35 frames that we don't own. I think we are possibly the most expensive airline out there. That is why I laugh at these merger rumors. Technically right now one could buy American for less than Spirit. That just shows us the sad state and the distorted realities under which financial markets operate. It is all about hype, expectations, and future performance. Good old values are not part of everyday investor decision making anymore because nobody is an investor anymore, everybody has become a trader. It is Vegas baby without the dollar beer.
My take on this price spike is that someone possibly knows something we don't and is willing to buy. Our market cap is over a billion with 35 frames that we don't own. I think we are possibly the most expensive airline out there. That is why I laugh at these merger rumors. Technically right now one could buy American for less than Spirit. That just shows us the sad state and the distorted realities under which financial markets operate. It is all about hype, expectations, and future performance. Good old values are not part of everyday investor decision making anymore because nobody is an investor anymore, everybody has become a trader. It is Vegas baby without the dollar beer.
Rereading what I said there I can see it isn't clear what I meant, and you are absolutely right about the stock only being worth what someone will pay at a given moment. My thought was less about the day trader mentality and more for an investor who can withstand the dips in the market without panic selling. If he can hold on for a while, the history of the stock market for any 20 year period is a positive trend. Assuming that nothing catastophic happens like bankrupcy or national emergency etc, and the investor can hold on to the stock, they would hope to sell it at a profit someday. Which would tie in to supply and demand in that if many people hold onto the stock, people who wanted to buy would have to pony up the money (again barring a knee jerk reaction to something).
The only statement of yours I would disagree with is "If future investors feel negative, those holding the stock will feel the same way as well because they are all drawing the same conclusions based on the same information." I think many investors including Warren Buffett would disagree, saying the time to buy is when the stock market dips (obviously doing thier proper research first). Who knows... if I were any good at it, I would be a broker.
The merger rumors make me smile also. I think we should buy American. How did we get to 1B in market cap? Was I sleeping? You are right about the hype. It does seem that aviation stocks are even more volatile than most others that are tied to oil.
10-16-2011, 10:32 PM
#2977
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 319/320/321...whatever it takes.
Posts: 492
[QUOTE=390SetBlue;1070693]You know I just spent 10 minutes attempting to post what you just did only to have this stupid hotel wireless punt me during the posting resulting in the loss of my post.
[QUOTE]
That happens to me a lot on my home computer. I have started the habit of right clicking and copying my post before I hit the submit button. It is very frustrating to lose a long and detailed post.
[QUOTE]
That happens to me a lot on my home computer. I have started the habit of right clicking and copying my post before I hit the submit button. It is very frustrating to lose a long and detailed post.
10-17-2011, 06:34 AM
#2978
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Seated
Posts: 338
Yeah I noticed spirit hit the billion mark on the market cap and it made me laugh. I thought to myself, "how can we be worth a billion dollars and not own anything". Spirit was at 1120.00 million this morning and amr was at 998.00 million. Heck jet blue is only at 1359.00 million. Spirit is not that far behind them. It does reinforce that I clearly do not get how the stock market works 
10-17-2011, 07:12 AM
#2979
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320 Left soon middle
Posts: 488
You pay for beer in Vegas???
Rereading what I said there I can see it isn't clear what I meant, and you are absolutely right about the stock only being worth what someone will pay at a given moment. My thought was less about the day trader mentality and more for an investor who can withstand the dips in the market without panic selling. If he can hold on for a while, the history of the stock market for any 20 year period is a positive trend. Assuming that nothing catastophic happens like bankrupcy or national emergency etc, and the investor can hold on to the stock, they would hope to sell it at a profit someday. Which would tie in to supply and demand in that if many people hold onto the stock, people who wanted to buy would have to pony up the money (again barring a knee jerk reaction to something).
The only statement of yours I would disagree with is "If future investors feel negative, those holding the stock will feel the same way as well because they are all drawing the same conclusions based on the same information." I think many investors including Warren Buffett would disagree, saying the time to buy is when the stock market dips (obviously doing thier proper research first). Who knows... if I were any good at it, I would be a broker.
The merger rumors make me smile also. I think we should buy American. How did we get to 1B in market cap? Was I sleeping? You are right about the hype. It does seem that aviation stocks are even more volatile than most others that are tied to oil.
Rereading what I said there I can see it isn't clear what I meant, and you are absolutely right about the stock only being worth what someone will pay at a given moment. My thought was less about the day trader mentality and more for an investor who can withstand the dips in the market without panic selling. If he can hold on for a while, the history of the stock market for any 20 year period is a positive trend. Assuming that nothing catastophic happens like bankrupcy or national emergency etc, and the investor can hold on to the stock, they would hope to sell it at a profit someday. Which would tie in to supply and demand in that if many people hold onto the stock, people who wanted to buy would have to pony up the money (again barring a knee jerk reaction to something).
The only statement of yours I would disagree with is "If future investors feel negative, those holding the stock will feel the same way as well because they are all drawing the same conclusions based on the same information." I think many investors including Warren Buffett would disagree, saying the time to buy is when the stock market dips (obviously doing thier proper research first). Who knows... if I were any good at it, I would be a broker.
The merger rumors make me smile also. I think we should buy American. How did we get to 1B in market cap? Was I sleeping? You are right about the hype. It does seem that aviation stocks are even more volatile than most others that are tied to oil.
Something is going on though, because all this hiring for two planes seems excessive.
10-18-2011, 07:49 AM
#2980
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Seated
Posts: 338
Why does wall street keep freezing amr stock trading? Why does it matter to them if the stock tanks? Or is it a government interference thing?
Last edited by Dilbert; 10-18-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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