Spirit of NKS
03-28-2015, 04:18 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Switch, Lever & Light Specialist
Posts: 1,065
Please don't take this the wrong way...
But....
Ugh, how could you not know this?? You should have known this when the benefit was first explained to you our at least sought out the answer. It's such an important part of the whole package. No one should of come here just because of airplane orders (maybe you haven't, but too many have). It has to be the whole model, work rules (which need work), the whole package. For me, the amendable date, timing of this contract was a big part of the potential of this place.
On the subject of insurance around here. We are so far from standard it's really pathetic. From ZERO, NADA, ZILCH..... STD to our abysmal LTD. For instance I had a guy tell me we didn't need STD. That it only took him 6.5 years, 6.5 YEARS, to save up enough sick time to cover his 3 months, 90 days with no pay! THIS IS JUST SILLY! It is pennies for a little STD program that saves you thousands! Most of us ski, drive fast cars, motorcycles, boats, mow the yard, etc.... Why in the hell would you want to spend 4,6,8K a month to cover your bills?? One day you will need it, you will get hurt. Guaranteed! This is just one example, as you know there are many more.
We are so far from standard, it's crazy.
WE HAVE TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE, ALL OF US, OR WE WILL FAIL!
Please, ALL, educate when you have the opportunity.
But....
Ugh, how could you not know this?? You should have known this when the benefit was first explained to you our at least sought out the answer. It's such an important part of the whole package. No one should of come here just because of airplane orders (maybe you haven't, but too many have). It has to be the whole model, work rules (which need work), the whole package. For me, the amendable date, timing of this contract was a big part of the potential of this place.
On the subject of insurance around here. We are so far from standard it's really pathetic. From ZERO, NADA, ZILCH..... STD to our abysmal LTD. For instance I had a guy tell me we didn't need STD. That it only took him 6.5 years, 6.5 YEARS, to save up enough sick time to cover his 3 months, 90 days with no pay! THIS IS JUST SILLY! It is pennies for a little STD program that saves you thousands! Most of us ski, drive fast cars, motorcycles, boats, mow the yard, etc.... Why in the hell would you want to spend 4,6,8K a month to cover your bills?? One day you will need it, you will get hurt. Guaranteed! This is just one example, as you know there are many more.
We are so far from standard, it's crazy.
WE HAVE TO GET ON THE SAME PAGE, ALL OF US, OR WE WILL FAIL!
Please, ALL, educate when you have the opportunity.
03-28-2015, 05:34 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I copied this from the policy dated 2007. I don't have the current one. Perhaps they removed the clause in Contract 2010.
• injury.
Im not defending our policy or suggesting it doesn't need improvement. Im just correcting the belief about the 2 year limitation.
Test of Disability
From the date that you first become disabled and until Monthly Benefits are payable for 24 months, you will be deemed to be
disabled on any day if:
•
you are not able to perform the material duties of your own occupation solely because of: disease or injury; and
•
your work earnings are 80% or less of your adjusted predisability earnings.
After the first 24 months that any Monthly Benefit is payable during a period of disability, you will be deemed to be disabled
on any day if you are not able to work at any
reasonable occupation solely because of:
•
disease; or
• injury.
Reasonable Occupation
This is any gainful activity for which you are; or may reasonably become; fitted by: education; training; or experience; and
which results in; or can be expected to result in; an income of more than 80% of your adjusted predisability earnings.Im not defending our policy or suggesting it doesn't need improvement. Im just correcting the belief about the 2 year limitation.
If you have two arms, two legs, and are of sound mind you are "able" meaning reasonable occupation or not you better get one because no mo LTD for you,
A reasonable occupation has nothing to do with losing your medical and not being able to fly. So if you went on LTD because you lost your medical and after two years you can't get it back but can otherwise work at a "reasonable occupation" then you're off LTD but you can't come back as a pilot. In other words FUKCED!
03-28-2015, 06:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: A 320
Posts: 265
Key words are "if you are not able to work any reasonable occupation".
If you have two arms, two legs, and are of sound mind you are "able" meaning reasonable occupation or not you better get one because no mo LTD for you,
A reasonable occupation has nothing to do with losing your medical and not being able to fly. So if you went on LTD because you lost your medical and after two years you can't get it back but can otherwise work at a "reasonable occupation" then you're off LTD but you can't come back as a pilot. In other words FUKCED!
If you have two arms, two legs, and are of sound mind you are "able" meaning reasonable occupation or not you better get one because no mo LTD for you,
A reasonable occupation has nothing to do with losing your medical and not being able to fly. So if you went on LTD because you lost your medical and after two years you can't get it back but can otherwise work at a "reasonable occupation" then you're off LTD but you can't come back as a pilot. In other words FUKCED!
03-28-2015, 07:35 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Displaced
Posts: 74
Republic pilots had their union get a loss of medical policy through Harvey watt. LTD and STD policies.
03-28-2015, 07:39 PM
Gets Off to Weekends
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 649
Key words are "if you are not able to work any reasonable occupation".
If you have two arms, two legs, and are of sound mind you are "able" meaning reasonable occupation or not you better get one because no mo LTD for you,
A reasonable occupation has nothing to do with losing your medical and not being able to fly. So if you went on LTD because you lost your medical and after two years you can't get it back but can otherwise work at a "reasonable occupation" then you're off LTD but you can't come back as a pilot. In other words FUKCED!
If you have two arms, two legs, and are of sound mind you are "able" meaning reasonable occupation or not you better get one because no mo LTD for you,
A reasonable occupation has nothing to do with losing your medical and not being able to fly. So if you went on LTD because you lost your medical and after two years you can't get it back but can otherwise work at a "reasonable occupation" then you're off LTD but you can't come back as a pilot. In other words FUKCED!
03-28-2015, 10:48 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Listen, you don't have to like how it's interpreted but that's exactly how the insurance company, spirit, and our own Alpa committee have interpreted it. I've spoken to them directly. If after 2 years you aren't completely crippled you're not getting any more money whether or not you can get your medical certificate back.
If you want to vote for a contract that risks millions in career earnings when you lose your medical for something completely outside of your control, by all means do so. That is your right. But ANY contract that has our current LTD will be voted against by me.
1. SCOPE
2. LTD
3. The sum of pay rates, retirement, and work rules
03-29-2015, 06:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
I think you need to read it. A brain surgeon is a "reasonable occupation". It meets 80% of your predisability earnings and you can be educated and trained to do it. If you are healthy but otherwise cannot meet the criteria to hold a first class medical you are "able" to be employed as a brain surgeon. The policy doesn't say you have to be employed as one it just says you have to be "able" to be trained to be one, which you can.
Listen, you don't have to like how it's interpreted but that's exactly how the insurance company, spirit, and our own Alpa committee have interpreted it. I've spoken to them directly. If after 2 years you aren't completely crippled you're not getting any more money whether or not you can get your medical certificate back.
If you want to vote for a contract that risks millions in career earnings when you lose your medical for something completely outside of your control, by all means do so. That is your right. But ANY contract that has our current LTD will be voted against by me.
1. SCOPE
2. LTD
3. The sum of pay rates, retirement, and work rules
Listen, you don't have to like how it's interpreted but that's exactly how the insurance company, spirit, and our own Alpa committee have interpreted it. I've spoken to them directly. If after 2 years you aren't completely crippled you're not getting any more money whether or not you can get your medical certificate back.
If you want to vote for a contract that risks millions in career earnings when you lose your medical for something completely outside of your control, by all means do so. That is your right. But ANY contract that has our current LTD will be voted against by me.
1. SCOPE
2. LTD
3. The sum of pay rates, retirement, and work rules
03-29-2015, 06:36 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 32
As someone who is out on LTD now. I can say I will not vote on anything that doesn't address this issue. At my previous job Harvey Watt was used and the process was painless when having to file a claim after an injury. With no short term here, and the current provider I would expect no pay for 4-6 months time. It took 2 months past my elgibility date to receive first payment, and that was with me hounding the provider and doctors. Bottom line you better have some money saved because the sick time goes quick. Just my .02. That's not even addressing the 2 year term which is garbage.
03-29-2015, 07:36 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: A 320
Posts: 265
I think you need to read it. A brain surgeon is a "reasonable occupation". It meets 80% of your predisability earnings and you can be educated and trained to do it. If you are healthy but otherwise cannot meet the criteria to hold a first class medical you are "able" to be employed as a brain surgeon. The policy doesn't say you have to be employed as one it just says you have to be "able" to be trained to be one, which you can.
Listen, you don't have to like how it's interpreted but that's exactly how the insurance company, spirit, and our own Alpa committee have interpreted it. I've spoken to them directly. If after 2 years you aren't completely crippled you're not getting any more money whether or not you can get your medical certificate back.
If you want to vote for a contract that risks millions in career earnings when you lose your medical for something completely outside of your control, by all means do so. That is your right. But ANY contract that has our current LTD will be voted against by me.
1. SCOPE
2. LTD
3. The sum of pay rates, retirement, and work rules
Listen, you don't have to like how it's interpreted but that's exactly how the insurance company, spirit, and our own Alpa committee have interpreted it. I've spoken to them directly. If after 2 years you aren't completely crippled you're not getting any more money whether or not you can get your medical certificate back.
If you want to vote for a contract that risks millions in career earnings when you lose your medical for something completely outside of your control, by all means do so. That is your right. But ANY contract that has our current LTD will be voted against by me.
1. SCOPE
2. LTD
3. The sum of pay rates, retirement, and work rules
Just curious, who in ALPA represented this interpretation to you. Is this Gonsen again.
Note to everyone else: I know the policy sucks and needs to be fixed. I would rather have my head cut open by Sanjay Gupta instead of autopilot or Gonsen.
03-29-2015, 09:02 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I'm not quite sure I'm understanding you. I'm trying to explain to you (or anyone interested) the amount of risk we are exposed to with our LTD that is nowhere near industry standard. You keep refuting pure fact and trying to discredit me. Why, I'm not sure. What's your motivation. I'm just a guy on the internet that very much wants to retire a Spirit pilot but the contract short comings, LTD specifically, are getting more apparent as seniority numbers at other carriers are being claimed everyday. The only way to know what you should be asking for is to know what you already have and sadly many pilots here do not. But you keep defending the LTD as if you wrote the policy. Why?
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