Spirit of NKS
02-11-2015, 06:38 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Thank you Qotsaautopilot,
It is legal only if the trip was posted from the time it became open, up till 12:00 two calendar days prior.
CS is "hiding" trips from Flica that are open, then post them inside the reserve assignment window after 12:00.
This is NOT legal and is robbing ALL of us from open time.
Today those trips were completely removed from Flica, like they do not exist!
Thus there is no way for pilots to know they are open.
Is someone at CS reading this thread?
It is legal only if the trip was posted from the time it became open, up till 12:00 two calendar days prior.
CS is "hiding" trips from Flica that are open, then post them inside the reserve assignment window after 12:00.
This is NOT legal and is robbing ALL of us from open time.
Today those trips were completely removed from Flica, like they do not exist!
Thus there is no way for pilots to know they are open.
Is someone at CS reading this thread?
I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
02-11-2015, 06:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Airbus Left
Posts: 130
"I haven't been looking, have reserves been flying a lot more?
Anyway, it will be a good thing if there is never any open time. Then people will realize how much hourly rate does matter when it becomes impossible to "work the system"
You guys sure it isnt seasonal?, Janurary & February are always pretty low block time aren't they? (I guess we will find out the next two months)"
Right on, Joey and Q. The company's exess flying fluctuates greatly throughout the year. Maybe some of it seasonal, some of it related to hiring/training not quite matching the new flying we are taking on.
The open time system is primarily designed as their "shock absorber" in this regards. Industry standard.
We as pilots would be smart not to rely on it to make ends meet, but unfortunately many have to (especially in early years) because our payscale is so lousy. We need to fix this, let's set the bar high in the next contract!!
Anyway, it will be a good thing if there is never any open time. Then people will realize how much hourly rate does matter when it becomes impossible to "work the system"
You guys sure it isnt seasonal?, Janurary & February are always pretty low block time aren't they? (I guess we will find out the next two months)"
Right on, Joey and Q. The company's exess flying fluctuates greatly throughout the year. Maybe some of it seasonal, some of it related to hiring/training not quite matching the new flying we are taking on.
The open time system is primarily designed as their "shock absorber" in this regards. Industry standard.
We as pilots would be smart not to rely on it to make ends meet, but unfortunately many have to (especially in early years) because our payscale is so lousy. We need to fix this, let's set the bar high in the next contract!!
02-11-2015, 08:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
I don't understand, if you are seeing this. Why the F--- aren't you taking screen shots and talking to the Union. Posting on here isn't going to do ****. They need proof. If you have proof, do something for christsake
I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
Whoa! Check out Joey getting fired up!
Keep in mind you have a guy full time in Miramar looking at this stuff. If they wanted to find it, it would be found. No screenshot necessary. This MEC seams to love ZERO open time. Whatever the company does to zero it out and keep you from a pickup is apparently ok with the MEC.
CS has two flavors of open trips, published and unpublished. Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives. Published is what we see in opentime.
Now, I'm not saying they would do anything nefarious down there at CS, but it is possible:
The Reach-Around
A good trip opens, CS parks it in unpub until they contact their buddy (payback for previous 'help', or to insure answering the phone in the future). CS processes the ADD, buddy gets the trip.
The Reserve Gambit
CS parks a high credit trip in unpub until within the 2 day window, then assigns it to a reserve.
Just a couple possible CS plays.
How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.
02-11-2015, 08:45 AM
escaped
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
I don't understand, if you are seeing this. Why the F--- aren't you taking screen shots and talking to the Union. Posting on here isn't going to do ****. They need proof. If you have proof, do something for christsake
I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
I saw Amangero in DTW the other day and asked him about this's and he said, (not quoting, forget the exact wording) but there was really no evidence that CS was doing this.
We need more pilots to make a stronger case.
That is why I am asking pilots to call/email the scheduling committee!
Anyone please pm me for more info.
02-11-2015, 08:52 AM
escaped
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
CS has two flavors of open trips, published and unpublished. Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives. Published is what we see in opentime.
Now, I'm not saying they would do anything nefarious down there at CS, but it is possible:
The Reach-Around
A good trip opens, CS parks it in unpub until they contact their buddy (payback for previous 'help', or to insure answering the phone in the future). CS processes the ADD, buddy gets the trip.
The Reserve Gambit
CS parks a high credit trip in unpub until within the 2 day window, then assigns it to a reserve.
Just a couple possible CS plays.
How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.
Now, I'm not saying they would do anything nefarious down there at CS, but it is possible:
The Reach-Around
A good trip opens, CS parks it in unpub until they contact their buddy (payback for previous 'help', or to insure answering the phone in the future). CS processes the ADD, buddy gets the trip.
The Reserve Gambit
CS parks a high credit trip in unpub until within the 2 day window, then assigns it to a reserve.
Just a couple possible CS plays.
How can you tell it's moved to unpublished OT?
- You get a flica alert and the trip is gone before you can log in. Maybe you got out bid, maybe it's been moved. If a quick check on crew trac shows the trip is still unassigned, it's been moved.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to shake this black helicopter that's been following me.
Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives
Is this allowed by the contract?
That is exactly what is happening.
They are withholding prime open time trips to make side deals, or assign to reserves.
I urge you all to take notes.
Making side deals undermines the contract and hurts all of us.
02-11-2015, 08:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
Fantastic post!
Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives
Is this allowed by the contract?
That is exactly what is happening.
They are withholding prime open time trips to make side deals, or assign to reserves.
I urge you all to take notes.
Making side deals undermines the contract and hurts all of us.
Unpublished is where the 5% withholding allotment lives
Is this allowed by the contract?
That is exactly what is happening.
They are withholding prime open time trips to make side deals, or assign to reserves.
I urge you all to take notes.
Making side deals undermines the contract and hurts all of us.
5% is allowed, but when and how it is measured may be debatable. The fact it is under "Bid packet prep" makes me think nothing should go into unpublished after the lines are built, but that's just me.
02-11-2015, 09:02 AM
escaped
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
Great info Plane Ramrod:
My understanding is that the 5% is for training and relief line purposes.
I agree with you that nothing should be unpublished, unless used for OE. I will research that.
My understanding is that the 5% is for training and relief line purposes.
I agree with you that nothing should be unpublished, unless used for OE. I will research that.
02-11-2015, 09:43 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Airbus Left
Posts: 130
"Prior to the construction of bid lines, the Company may select and withhold up to 5 percent of the total scheduled flight time in each position. In addition, with MEC notification, the Company may withhold an additional 3 percent for the purposes of building OE training lines."
The other one, Page 25-11:
"Scheduling shall place all open trip pairings into the Electronic Shift Trade Daily Open Time Pot as soon as known by Scheduling."
No doubt, we need more transparency in this process.
02-11-2015, 10:03 AM
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
02-11-2015, 11:54 AM
escaped
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
No worries Joey.
This kind of aggression is music to my ears.
Being passive or complacent, only allows CS to intimidate our group and break the contract.
You do not know how many times I have heard:
"I am going to grieve it, when I complete probation", only to forgive and forget, when that time comes...
This kind of aggression is music to my ears.
Being passive or complacent, only allows CS to intimidate our group and break the contract.
You do not know how many times I have heard:
"I am going to grieve it, when I complete probation", only to forgive and forget, when that time comes...
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