redhot

if you don't like this video here is a "woke" news source for you...

"Last year, Delta Air Lines received $6.8 billion in revenue from American Express on its co-branded Delta Amex card. American Airlines reported revenue of $5.2 billion from co-branded cards and other partnerships. United reported a mere $3.2 billion on its other operating line that came primarily on payments to its frequent flyer program. And when considering the adjusted incomes of 2023 for Delta ($4 billion) American ($1.9 billion) and United ($3.3 billion), it’s easy to understand why the major carriers rely so heavily on frequent flyer programs."

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/08/busin...nes/index.html

If you can't see how that is a issue with record high CC debt then that's on you. These companies would not be profitbale without CC programs.

you do you, go ahead and live in fantasy land, but without CC programs no legacy could compete for econmy tickets prices. The american consumer is in debt and has about 2-4 weeks of savings. If ******* hits the fan economically the whole premuim model falls apart.

Stayontarget

I would call adding basic economy copying the ULCC model.

Spirit is getting crushed through a myriad of factors. Slow to bring up utilization, slow to adapt, Pratt & Whitney leading to staffing problems, higher fuel prices, and the supply and demand economics of basic seats.

Let’s do some simple and admittedly not highly accurate math. Spirit and Frontier fleet is around 350 planes. Legacy fleet is greater than 2500ish? All they needed is 1 out of every 7 seats to be basic economy to double the ULCC seat market in the US. So 30 seats a plane? And then they could make all the money they want with the rest.

As a passenger I don’t give a hoot what airline I fly as long as it matches my schedule and price. But if I only have one option every few days or heck even 1 option a day vs 9 it’s a nice peace of mind to fly on the airline with a huge fleet.

Another note…everybody talks about ULCC costing the same as a legacy after all the bags. Unfortunately for the ULCCs passengers have learned how to travel without bags. I rarely see more than 20% bag to pax ratio. My flight currently has 11%. It’s still way cheaper to fly ULCC if you know how the game works.

CatPilot1

The royal we.

BKbigfish

Basic economy does not make the legacies “a ton of money.” It retains leisure customers they would otherwise lose to the competition and simultaneously is putting said competition out of business. The legacies are not making money on the basic economy product. It’s a loss leader. They’re just able to offset the that loss with revenue from CC and premium products.

khergan

My understanding was that most vacation travel in general doesn't make legacies any money. It's business, international premium, and CC that generate profit. That's completely aside from BE seats, which are loss leaders. Haven't seen any hard numbers on that but it kind of tracks when you look at UA/DAL profits vs AA recently.

Alexjones

A merger with frontier airlines creates the only real path forward for ULCC / LCC business model.A consolidation of the only two real LCC operators gives the opportunity to make a profit while charging a slightly lower fare with no other competition in the LCC space.

StoneQOLdCrazy

Charging less money for a product in order to take business from a competitor is “copying?”

c’mon, man. It’s not copying. It’s capitalism.

and non of the big 3 want anything to do with the ulcc “model.”

Stayontarget

I do admit I use copying loosely. It’s copying the fare structure for a portion of their aircraft with better inherent customer service.

Margaritaville

There already is a legacy carrier that copied the ULCC/LCC model and focuses on making money domestically through volume. It's called American Airlines. The Walmart of aviation.

rickair7777

FIFY.
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