Spirit Airlines Ch.11
07-25-2024, 02:20 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 412
Managment of a legacy that has 17k+ pilot group doesnt really care about a 3k pilot group being merged into their 17k pilot group, that wont even be noticable. ALPA carriers can't staple if they merge anyway. The main goal of management would be to get planes and have them staffed and if a merger for the "right price" to prevent a bidding war for pieces might actually be beneficial. But, this is hypothetical... i dont believe it will happen. My guess is Chapt 11, reorganize, change business model for more premium offerings, maybe leave the ULCC entirely and come out the other end a different type of airline.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
07-25-2024, 02:28 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 1,009
If there was a purchase and merger, the seniority list merger would likely be with an owned regional, not the mainline carrier. It would be much, much cheaper this way. Why put pilots on the list at higher pay levels when Delta can buy them and merge them with Endeavor, or AA with Envoy. Most pilots would not take it and leave, which would be fine. No way a legacy airline would ever merge senioirty lists again. It is massively expensive for the parent airline to do this.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
Wouldn't they just buy us and force us to instruct in 172s at their cadet program?
Then all of our careers would come full circle, back to where we started.
07-25-2024, 02:33 PM
#123
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 10
If there was a purchase and merger, the seniority list merger would likely be with an owned regional, not the mainline carrier. It would be much, much cheaper this way. Why put pilots on the list at higher pay levels when Delta can buy them and merge them with Endeavor, or AA with Envoy. Most pilots would not take it and leave, which would be fine. No way a legacy airline would ever merge senioirty lists again. It is massively expensive for the parent airline to do this.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
07-25-2024, 02:42 PM
#124
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,908
If there was a purchase and merger, the seniority list merger would likely be with an owned regional, not the mainline carrier. It would be much, much cheaper this way. Why put pilots on the list at higher pay levels when Delta can buy them and merge them with Endeavor, or AA with Envoy. Most pilots would not take it and leave, which would be fine. No way a legacy airline would ever merge senioirty lists again. It is massively expensive for the parent airline to do this.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
This has to be one of the dumbest posts I’ve read on here in a long time.
07-25-2024, 02:58 PM
#125
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 21
Cinco, history seems to disagree with you. Frontier was purchased by Republic in 2009. So Fly Guy theory's isn't that far off.
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/14/11187...ntier-airlines
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/14/11187...ntier-airlines
07-25-2024, 03:06 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2023
Posts: 333
If there was a purchase and merger, the seniority list merger would likely be with an owned regional, not the mainline carrier. It would be much, much cheaper this way. Why put pilots on the list at higher pay levels when Delta can buy them and merge them with Endeavor, or AA with Envoy. Most pilots would not take it and leave, which would be fine. No way a legacy airline would ever merge senioirty lists again. It is massively expensive for the parent airline to do this.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
There are plenty of street hire pilots available (or there will be soon enough) that will start at year 1 pay. In a purchase, pilots are not a benefit, but rather a liability. They purchase gate space/slots, airplanes, engines, etc... They don't care about employees.
07-25-2024, 03:43 PM
#127
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,908
Cinco, history seems to disagree with you. Frontier was purchased by Republic in 2009. So Fly Guy theory's isn't that far off.
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/14/11187...ntier-airlines
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/14/11187...ntier-airlines
So your theory is American comes in, says “we want to buy NK but we don’t want the “expense”
of merging NK pilots with AA pilots, so we are going to buy them and merge them with PSA, get their planes, and put their pilots with PSA”
1) In a merger, NK pilots go with the planes. So in your example, does PSA now have a fleet of A320 series aircraft? If so, that violates scope for mainline.
2)Do the A320s go to AA
mainline and the NK pilots go to PSA? If so, that violates NK scope.
3) Does AA management try and have NK A320s fly as an “alter ego” carrier? If so, that violates scope of probably 2 carriers.
The Frontier/Republic/Midwest/Lynx debacle was an incredibly different mess all together with 4 airlines, which, eventually failed to come to fruition
07-25-2024, 03:56 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
Wouldn't it be rich if they were able to reorganize with a plan to put in nice FC and more legroom in back (just like say....JB) and then after the reorg was underway, announce a merger with JB. You know, two smaller full service airlines merging to compete.
07-26-2024, 06:46 AM
#129
RSV4LIFE
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 81
Spirit owns only a couple aircraft, at this point maybe all are leveraged. NK pilots have zero fragmentation language. If any airline would actually want the largest domestic fleet of POS 320 NEOs they would just negotiate straight with the judge and the leasing company.No reason to involve Alpa, pilots, etc . The pilot shortage is over
07-26-2024, 07:07 AM
#130
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,151
First suggesting a legacy would buy Spirit and merge it with a regional is asinine. There's no industry precedent for that and contracts and merger policy would prevent it.
Second why would any legacy want to buy Spirit when they can just outspend them by throwing metal at their routes and then fight over the scraps when they go under?
The only buyout chance I see is Indigo picking Spirit up in a fire sale.
But Airbus/PW owe Spirit a lot of money and it sounds like they are making changes to the business model. I think Spirit will survive.
Second why would any legacy want to buy Spirit when they can just outspend them by throwing metal at their routes and then fight over the scraps when they go under?
The only buyout chance I see is Indigo picking Spirit up in a fire sale.
But Airbus/PW owe Spirit a lot of money and it sounds like they are making changes to the business model. I think Spirit will survive.
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