rickair7777

Worth noting that BK companies, even if allowed to reject/modify a CBA do not get carte blanche. Typically the judge will impose an "industry average" contract, although if it were necessary to make the numbers work in the reorganization proposal the court might cut deeper. In this case the company would argue for the average of the ULCC industry (SY, F9, G4, Breeze, Avelo), not the average of DL, UA, AA, and SW.

Courts seem to like snap-back provisions, so you might suck it up for a while and then get some or all of the original contract back after things turn around post-BK.

Also the company has to jump through some hoops before it can even go there with a CBA, and that would take at least some amount of time (11 USC 1113). If the company starts trying to negotiate a concessionary CBA that's a good sign that Ch.11 is right around the corner.

Lincoln Osiris

Are we even technically going to be a ULCC when we start offering these full service fares come fall?

checkgear

Is that confirmed? I was suspecting it was just another flight deck rumour with no substance.

rickair7777

I would say LCC/National carrier, assuming industry-comparable price-points. Can't claim legacy-equivalent status without hub-and-spoke, international, and regional flying.

But that's not what they'll argue for the judge... it will be ULCC all the way, which is true at that moment in time.

As I mentioned, snap-back clauses are common and not terribly unreasonable.

Chimpy

question then becomes it it’ll he worth it to stick around for a NK/F9 merger. A year ago I was a lot more enthusiastic than I would be now. Problem is seniority is a helluva drug, lol

8JRMfortheyear

Came to conclusion its not worth it. The uncertainty and whats attached with ch11 is not worth staying anymore.

NuGuy

In theory, yes. In reality, depending on the carrier, the Feds give a tremendous amount of lattitude on this. I've seen utterly bankrupt, shoe string operators lurch from day to day with nothing more than change they found in the crew lounge couch.

In the end, there's usually one big triggering event...pop an engine, put a wheel in the dirt, or some random contractor or airport that gets tired of waiting for their money and boots a plane(s). Everyone else freaks and does the same because they think they'll get left out. Then the game is over, and the end comes surprisingly fast.

It also depends on how financially savvy the operating management its. Sometimes the operation gets away from them and they just pull the plug. Braniff (the original) had something like 60 days of pre-paid fuel on the books when their clueless management pulled the plug.

That being said, my guess is they're smart enough here to thread the needle.

Hugh Betcha

Is ULCC even a word? I thought Ben B. made it up in a late 2005 during an all company meeting when he coined "unbundeling"? Slang that eventually made it into the dictionary when it was used enough? Got the idea from Ryanair?

nene

Well for years there were SWA, and other defunct places like Skybus, and Airtran that were known as LCC's. When Spirit and now Frontier tried to go with the "unbundeling" of fares and replicate the ultra low fares of Europe (at least to advertise), then it seemed that the LCC needed a new tier of representation.

CatPilot1

Nice story. Buh Byeeeee!