JetBlue merger
10-21-2023, 12:44 PM
#351
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 770
All of that said, it always cracks me up when people say the case against the merger will be decided due to the lack of financial return at NK. The financial stability of the company has nothing to due with the interpretation of the law. If you are caught speeding and can’t pay the fine, you are still found liable for speeding. They just allow you to pay in installments or serve some other penalty. Not exactly the same but similar.
Still though, the cash cow NK once was, seems to have lost its touch.
Still though, the cash cow NK once was, seems to have lost its touch.
Make no mistake though, this is still political. The election year is neigh upon us and the administration needs to put some runs on the board anywhere they can.
10-22-2023, 04:52 AM
#352
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 247
10-22-2023, 06:46 AM
#353
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 1,318
It might be more of a factor is NK was deep in bankruptcy and likely to close the doors. The law is still the law, but the DOJ would have the political pressure of the loss of jobs and loss of market competition. But a few quarters in the red is a long way from insolvency.
Make no mistake though, this is still political. The election year is neigh upon us and the administration needs to put some runs on the board anywhere they can.
Make no mistake though, this is still political. The election year is neigh upon us and the administration needs to put some runs on the board anywhere they can.
Hey I make mistakes from time to time. Just curious though. When the DOJ submitted an official complaint to the USA Air / America West in 2005, then the DAL/NWA merger on 10/28/08, then again sued AMR/USair in August of 2013, aaaaaaannndd then again in November of 2015 the DOJ sued to block the merger between UAL/CAL. And then.........you guessed it, on 6/6/2017, the DOJ drafted an official complaint to sue Alaska and Virgin for alleged anti trust law issues. The difference in all those mergers vs this one? They all settled before a court date was set. See for yourself in the archives. It's all there for anyone interested. JetBlue has had a lot of time to settle the details and work out a deal. If it were that easy, they would have done so by now.
Was it all political back then? Haven't checked the election dates.
10-22-2023, 08:21 AM
#354
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,920
Hey I make mistakes from time to time. Just curious though. When the DOJ submitted an official complaint to the USA Air / America West in 2005, then the DAL/NWA merger on 10/28/08, then again sued AMR/USair in August of 2013, aaaaaaannndd then again in November of 2015 the DOJ sued to block the merger between UAL/CAL. And then.........you guessed it, on 6/6/2017, the DOJ drafted an official complaint to sue Alaska and Virgin for alleged anti trust law issues. The difference in all those mergers vs this one? They all settled before a court date was set. See for yourself in the archives. It's all there for anyone interested. JetBlue has had a lot of time to settle the details and work out a deal. If it were that easy, they would have done so by now.
Was it all political back then? Haven't checked the election dates.
Was it all political back then? Haven't checked the election dates.
10-22-2023, 08:25 AM
#355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,920
As a whimsical thought, I love thinking about if the beloved JFK were alive today to give that exact same inaugural speech at a DNC convention in todays day and age, to see the jeers and tomatoes thrown his way.
10-22-2023, 08:39 AM
#356
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,920
Hey I make mistakes from time to time. Just curious though. When the DOJ submitted an official complaint to the USA Air / America West in 2005, then the DAL/NWA merger on 10/28/08, then again sued AMR/USair in August of 2013, aaaaaaannndd then again in November of 2015 the DOJ sued to block the merger between UAL/CAL. And then.........you guessed it, on 6/6/2017, the DOJ drafted an official complaint to sue Alaska and Virgin for alleged anti trust law issues. The difference in all those mergers vs this one? They all settled before a court date was set. See for yourself in the archives. It's all there for anyone interested. JetBlue has had a lot of time to settle the details and work out a deal. If it were that easy, they would have done so by now.
Was it all political back then? Haven't checked the election dates.
Was it all political back then? Haven't checked the election dates.
But to really show how political this one is, look at the fact that all those previous mergers settled before court. And those mergers were allowing merged entities twice the size of the proposed JB+NK. The fact that this merger, which will create the number 5 airline, not the number 1-2-3-4 airline, which has been allowed in the past, is not being allowed to settle before court really shows the extent of how political this one is.
Your own points/examples prove how political this one is.
10-22-2023, 03:22 PM
#357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 1,318
Others have good points, but I think the DOJ always wants to extract concessions to make the merger less harmful to consumers. In this case, JB+NK isn't the problem, in fact they are probably part of the solution to the real problem. The real problem was all the mergers they have allowed before that have let only 4 large airlines control over 80% of the airline market.
But to really show how political this one is, look at the fact that all those previous mergers settled before court. And those mergers were allowing merged entities twice the size of the proposed JB+NK. The fact that this merger, which will create the number 5 airline, not the number 1-2-3-4 airline, which has been allowed in the past, is not being allowed to settle before court really shows the extent of how political this one is.
Your own points/examples prove how political this one is.
But to really show how political this one is, look at the fact that all those previous mergers settled before court. And those mergers were allowing merged entities twice the size of the proposed JB+NK. The fact that this merger, which will create the number 5 airline, not the number 1-2-3-4 airline, which has been allowed in the past, is not being allowed to settle before court really shows the extent of how political this one is.
Your own points/examples prove how political this one is.
The only issue with this is that the DOJ does not approve or allow mergers to happen. The interpretation of the law in question is the judge hearing the case. The FTC and CPA are charged with drafting a legal complaint to initiate a court hearing. They alone cannot block crap. Have you read the original reasons as to why the DOJ had beef with the big three in the first place. Then the resolution to the complaint? They all conceded to what appears to be the satisfaction of DOJ.
Ask yourself why JBU has not done so in this case? Why they’ve wasted all this time waiting for this elusive hearing that seems to never be happening. It’s like they are buying time for something.
10-22-2023, 04:01 PM
#358
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,556
The only issue with this is that the DOJ does not approve or allow mergers to happen. The interpretation of the law in question is the judge hearing the case. The FTC and CPA are charged with drafting a legal complaint to initiate a court hearing. They alone cannot block crap. Have you read the original reasons as to why the DOJ had beef with the big three in the first place. Then the resolution to the complaint? They all conceded to what appears to be the satisfaction of DOJ.
Ask yourself why JBU has not done so in this case? Why they’ve wasted all this time waiting for this elusive hearing that seems to never be happening. It’s like they are buying time for something.
Ask yourself why JBU has not done so in this case? Why they’ve wasted all this time waiting for this elusive hearing that seems to never be happening. It’s like they are buying time for something.
Read your own post again knowing that JB did attempt to negotiate with the DOJ.
Then maybe look at the last 3 years of the DOJ opposing mergers left and right(and losing repeatedly).
Then go ask yourself if you take them at their word that they want to try and get new case laws in the books. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...rgers-00106970
Then ask yourself again why the DOJ is taking this one all the way to court.(not JB). The DOJ just said last month there was “no divestiture” that would remedy this merger. Its political.
10-22-2023, 05:24 PM
#360
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,967
Haha. It will 100% change. It will be senior, could become bad if the new company has to divest to the point of displacing positions.
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