AllOva736

go pretend to work somewhere else? Do you care to elaborate on that?

Bluedriver

I think he was responding to a guy who drops most of his schedule to be a part-time NK pilot, while he spends most of his time running "the family business".

So he just pretends to work at Spirit, part time, sometimes. That's what I understand his response to mean.

BeechedJet

I don’t have a dog in this fight anymore but I think an airline’s contract shouldn’t depend on your ability to have a second job.

Excargodog

Agree, although seniority at some bases might be affected.

But if JB has three year upgrades, the profile page at ALPC rather desperately needs updating.

The bigger issue for NK is being a CA on reserve. Last I checked, there were some 200 FOs senior to our junior CA. The QOL for our lineholders is purchased to some extent at the cost of our people on reserve, which is why many (especially commuters) defer upgrade until they have the seniority to hold a line at their base. We need to fix that in the JCBA. We ought to be able to get back better QOL for those on reserve without the “checker boarding” issues that sometimes really were pretty egregious. IMHO, anyway.

Justabusdriver1

My reasoning being under a jcba with competitive pay and benefits more routes and more planes we will rival legacies and therefore attrition at both companies should slow. Since both companies have such a young pilot group retirements will have an affect on upgrades. Right now both companies have reasonable upgrade time because of growth in operations and attrition.

I could be very wrong but those were my reasons. I see a relative slow down in growth post merger and integration. I also see a decrease in attrition and even with moderate growth I see a higher average utilization/efficient use of the pilot group decreasing the need for upgrades

Excargodog

Higher average utilization also affects need for CAs. And every additional aircraft on the line increases the need for CA authorizations by six or seven. Both airlines have a lot of aircraft on order and except for the older 319s, I don’t see many NK aircraft being retired after merger. But yeah, at steady state every new Ca will require an old one to die, quit, or retire. No airline is very close to steady state right now though.

Justabusdriver1

By utilization I mean pilot utilization. More efficient use of the larger group reducing the need for extra redundancy. I understand more planes means more CA. But I see the 19s going away and jb is getting rid of all their 190s all those pilots will either have to move to the 220 or the 320. If the growth of the combined airline remains about the same the pool of FOs doubles while the number of upgrades needed per month remains about the same it’s going to take longer for a new hire FO to climb the ladder to get their name called. The pilot group is set to almost double. I know jb has a larger pilot group than spirit so slightly less than double. But the combined airline won’t grow at twice the pace as the two separate airlines. The merger is meant to leap frog and take a giant step forward in jb growth plans but post integration growth won’t all the sudden accelerate

hindsight2020

Not directed at you, but isn't that the whole point of airline "work", and the impetus behind jumping out of the military/135/regionals in the first place? Airline folks are one double-speaking bunch. I'd call it hypocrisy, but schizophrenic would probably be a more charitable moniker for the dynamic.

As a pre-retirement fence sitter keeping all my options open, the contempt for the part-time/non-workaholic worker is palpable on here. No dog in the fight anymore really (original reason I lurked on the NK threads for a while), but I once thought about 121. Quickly realized through quiet but long-term observation of my squadronmates' schedules at the big 4+2 (over 16 years to include the lost decade), that the advertised trip dropping capes is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors in practice at the end of the day, regardless of contracts or airline, especially for those of us without "20-year work balance" horizons.

I certainly ain't apologizing for wanting to trade easy schedules for less money in my late40s/earl50s, not after 22 years of indentured servitude. To say nothing of having my work ethic in life strawmanned by a bunch of undiagnosed workaholics (SWA). Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

At any rate, back to lurking, good luck with the contract food fights, I'll see myself out.

Bluedriver

Justabusdriver, I do agree that a larger more stable better paying combined airline will likely see less attrition. That's a good point. However I also believe neither JB nor NK has been able to grow as fast as they hoped in the last few years, partly due to attrition, attraction, and aircraft delivery delays. For Spirit's they haven't been able to grow the group large enough to fully utilize their fleet, and this has also been the case at Blue, but to a lesser extent.

In the coming years aircraft delivery delays should normalize, and both JB and NK should be able to get aircraft utilization up (as a combined company) relative to recent years. At the same time I do not see pilot utilization going up from where it is, at least on the JB side. Other than the change from going from 3 fleets to 2.

Net that all out and I'm not sure I see upgrade slowing nearly as much as was suggested. But none of us know how the coming years will go, so there's that.

Upgrades at the legacies will also be slowing in the coming years as they hit the back sides of there hiring curve.

Agree with Excargo, need to have a great reserve section in the CBA. It should be an additional attractive bidding option that all can chose to utilize often or occasionally as they see fit.

I don't think 200 FO's senior to the junior captain is an unusual number though. I think you will find that statistically at all airlines as some guys prefer schedule control/seniority in seat over a little more money and the loss of seniority that comes with early upgrade.

Bluedriver

If he's dropping most of his trips to "run the family business" he's still a workaholic, just at his "other" job.

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