Avro85

And folks, that pretty much sums up the industry over the last 20 years.

SoFloFlyer

Looking at the 2022 Salary Survey thread determined that this is a lie. Are we behind on the current CBA? Yes. Are we grossly behind? No. Can it be better with the TA? Absolutely. Could we have gotten more? No one knows. But let’s not be disingenuous.

Justabusdriver1

I never said the word grossly behind. I said that saying we’re competitive is wrong. They have us beat on nearly every metric on the cba. Being maybe $5/hr behind on a single year of hard pay doesn’t necessarily mean we’re competitive because there so much more you have to look at.

afterburn81

Well getting back on the topic of this thread.

Spirit vs……..

From my perspective, the one thing NK has going for it is QOL. It’s unique to NK. It all depends on your lifestyle and your commitment to your employer. At the moment, under our current work rules and compared to several other better paying airlines, a relatively junior pilot can enjoy the flexibility of how easy it is to modify your schedule to meet your personal life needs.

Long story short, if you’re like me and you don’t like the idea of being owned by your employer NK allows this at a much earlier point in seniority vs the big 3.

Of course the big 3 will compensate you far better for your sacrifice and commitment to the company. But you have less of a choice there. They need you to work and the contract allows them to enforce it more than a place like NK.

As a very junior guy, I barely fly (don’t get paid much either) and enjoy running my Family business with little to no compromise from my flight schedule.

From my understanding of talking to other friends that are at the big 3, it’s not quite as easy to have that lifestyle. It’s all in what you prefer.

Noisecanceller

This gives the pilot group far far more positives than any perceived negative.

We staff more pilots than if we had contracted instructors. What does this do for the group? More insulation in the event of furlough. That could change one’s life. Having been furloughed it is nothing I’d ever want to do again.

It also makes your base and seat relative seniority artificially higher in two ways. 1. Your base is bigger than it otherwise would be. 2. When instructors senior to you bid for training you move up a slot that month for every one of them that does this.

If we contracted instructors all those guys are coming back to the line and many getting lines that people junior to them would have otherwise gotten. They aren’t going to resign their seniority number and become contract instructors.

Seniority is everything and anything that makes my seniority higher is a great thing.

SoFloFlyer

You literally said that it’s not even close.. CAs making more than $200k with good QOL isn’t close? FOs making $150k and more with good QOL isn’t close? You’re smoking something good and I need it

CincoDeMayo

Been said over and over but the fixation people have over one section of the contract is amazing.

What is the value of selling red/green drop to 0 to management? This vacuum where guys complain about rates and put no value in other sections, why? It’s like having a house with a nice exterior and no furniture in the house.

If you guys are fixated on an hourly rate, vote Teamsters in and deal with what Allegiant is dealing with and their “money on the table” but no improvements elsewhere.


This TA will be voted in, just under 48 hours, we keep our rules, get raises, and hopefully enter TPA in a few months after JBLU votes theirs in.

Hopefully we can mark this as the last time we have to ever negotiate solely with Spirit management, and get rid of these fools.

Justabusdriver1

Qol wasn’t up for debate. Pay and numbers were specifically mentioned by the OP that were competitive. We’re not. Our new ta is basically the ta DL has now and what UAL has now. Our rates and other metrics of pay lag behind. If our new TA passes we will be competitive with the big 3 till each pass their own new TA.

If you look at the whole picture that’s a different story. But you have to consider every other aspect of working for spirit and qol as well. Not just the contract.

Noisecanceller

I voted yes but no it’s not competitive. It’s a cycle behind.

onedolla

This brings up an interesting argument. For example, I wonder how little a big 3 CA or FO would have to work to make 200k/150k a year respectively. I’m guessing quite a bit less than the Spirit guy trying to hit those same numbers…