Spirit vs big 3
#22
Some of the bigger reasons to leave would be wide body or fleet variability. Some want the chance to maybe fly a different type in their career even if they’re happy on the bus. But saying we offer competitive pay isn’t even close. When you factor in soft pay, overrides, retirement, profit sharing at other places the gap gets quite a bit wider from the hard pay that’s already pretty wide. Bases are probably the biggest one. If you prefer a base another airline has and or you plan on moving to base and another airline has one in a city you want to move to that would be a golden ticket.
From what I can see there 2 types of pilots here. Those who came with the intention of staying and living out their career, because they don’t want to go through another training, maybe they’re older and just plan to ride out as as they can till retirement or spirit offer them the best qol for their family and where they live. Then there people who came here never intending to stay but came for the type and experience but never intended on making this a destination. So those people usually already know they’re leaving for any number of the reasons above.
From what I can see there 2 types of pilots here. Those who came with the intention of staying and living out their career, because they don’t want to go through another training, maybe they’re older and just plan to ride out as as they can till retirement or spirit offer them the best qol for their family and where they live. Then there people who came here never intending to stay but came for the type and experience but never intended on making this a destination. So those people usually already know they’re leaving for any number of the reasons above.
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
I never said the word grossly behind. I said that saying we’re competitive is wrong. They have us beat on nearly every metric on the cba. Being maybe $5/hr behind on a single year of hard pay doesn’t necessarily mean we’re competitive because there so much more you have to look at.
#24
Well getting back on the topic of this thread.
Spirit vs……..
From my perspective, the one thing NK has going for it is QOL. It’s unique to NK. It all depends on your lifestyle and your commitment to your employer. At the moment, under our current work rules and compared to several other better paying airlines, a relatively junior pilot can enjoy the flexibility of how easy it is to modify your schedule to meet your personal life needs.
Long story short, if you’re like me and you don’t like the idea of being owned by your employer NK allows this at a much earlier point in seniority vs the big 3.
Of course the big 3 will compensate you far better for your sacrifice and commitment to the company. But you have less of a choice there. They need you to work and the contract allows them to enforce it more than a place like NK.
As a very junior guy, I barely fly (don’t get paid much either) and enjoy running my Family business with little to no compromise from my flight schedule.
From my understanding of talking to other friends that are at the big 3, it’s not quite as easy to have that lifestyle. It’s all in what you prefer.
Spirit vs……..
From my perspective, the one thing NK has going for it is QOL. It’s unique to NK. It all depends on your lifestyle and your commitment to your employer. At the moment, under our current work rules and compared to several other better paying airlines, a relatively junior pilot can enjoy the flexibility of how easy it is to modify your schedule to meet your personal life needs.
Long story short, if you’re like me and you don’t like the idea of being owned by your employer NK allows this at a much earlier point in seniority vs the big 3.
Of course the big 3 will compensate you far better for your sacrifice and commitment to the company. But you have less of a choice there. They need you to work and the contract allows them to enforce it more than a place like NK.
As a very junior guy, I barely fly (don’t get paid much either) and enjoy running my Family business with little to no compromise from my flight schedule.
From my understanding of talking to other friends that are at the big 3, it’s not quite as easy to have that lifestyle. It’s all in what you prefer.
#25
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Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 896
Spirit MEC negotiating committee operates with a philosophy of preserving our training dept intact with seniority list instructors and no contractors. The instructors can then continue their 140 hour lines with 17 days off. Our training LEC council holds considerable sway in union negotiating.
We pay a considerable price in negotiating capital to preserve this training dept and its benefits.
We pay a considerable price in negotiating capital to preserve this training dept and its benefits.
We staff more pilots than if we had contracted instructors. What does this do for the group? More insulation in the event of furlough. That could change one’s life. Having been furloughed it is nothing I’d ever want to do again.
It also makes your base and seat relative seniority artificially higher in two ways. 1. Your base is bigger than it otherwise would be. 2. When instructors senior to you bid for training you move up a slot that month for every one of them that does this.
If we contracted instructors all those guys are coming back to the line and many getting lines that people junior to them would have otherwise gotten. They aren’t going to resign their seniority number and become contract instructors.
Seniority is everything and anything that makes my seniority higher is a great thing.
#26
I never said the word grossly behind. I said that saying we’re competitive is wrong. They have us beat on nearly every metric on the cba. Being maybe $5/hr behind on a single year of hard pay doesn’t necessarily mean we’re competitive because there so much more you have to look at.
#27
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
What is the value of selling red/green drop to 0 to management? This vacuum where guys complain about rates and put no value in other sections, why? It’s like having a house with a nice exterior and no furniture in the house.
If you guys are fixated on an hourly rate, vote Teamsters in and deal with what Allegiant is dealing with and their “money on the table” but no improvements elsewhere.
This TA will be voted in, just under 48 hours, we keep our rules, get raises, and hopefully enter TPA in a few months after JBLU votes theirs in.
Hopefully we can mark this as the last time we have to ever negotiate solely with Spirit management, and get rid of these fools.
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
If you look at the whole picture that’s a different story. But you have to consider every other aspect of working for spirit and qol as well. Not just the contract.
#29
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Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 896
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 417
This brings up an interesting argument. For example, I wonder how little a big 3 CA or FO would have to work to make 200k/150k a year respectively. I’m guessing quite a bit less than the Spirit guy trying to hit those same numbers…
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06-03-2008 05:55 PM