Spirit vs big 3
01-10-2023, 05:31 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
They aren’t chopping out QOL items, they just think this “short term” contract extension was only achievable if it was narrow in scope (ie only pay rates) and that they’d get all their QOL items “next time” in the JCBA. But if you think your JCBA will be great, I got a bridge to sell you. Two of the lowest self-worth pilot groups with some of the worst contracts who both settled for peanuts when their respective companies needed a deal more than the pilots did…and somehow they will jointly get some awesome contract? Yeah right.
01-10-2023, 05:46 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
01-10-2023, 06:06 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
I’ve read through it too. He didn’t say that. He said it would be great if we could get everything. But in an instance where you have to prioritize certain items at the bargaining table drop to zero isn’t high on the list. If it meant giving up pay, profit sharing, retirement etc to keep drop to zero he isn’t in favor of that. Which frankly I agree with and would be more open to a compromise rather than keeping it intact considering how seldom it’s used to its full potential.
01-10-2023, 06:16 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
I’ve read through it too. He didn’t say that. He said it would be great if we could get everything. But in an instance where you have to prioritize certain items at the bargaining table drop to zero isn’t high on the list. If it meant giving up pay, profit sharing, retirement etc to keep drop to zero he isn’t in favor of that. Which frankly I agree with and would be more open to a compromise rather than keeping it intact considering how seldom it’s used to its full potential.
We won’t get pay and QOL. One always wins out. What do you think they’ll prioritize? Hope I’m wrong. I know what he was alluding too and my statement didn’t contradict his position. When it comes down to it, him and many more pilots at JB will try to shoot down out QOL items because they don’t understand it. So yes, my statement is factual of what he said.
Oh, and don’t get involved in the union if you’re gonna compromise on the things that make this place great. Thanks.
01-10-2023, 06:33 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
As far as cabbages go, you’re as dense as they come.
We won’t get pay and QOL. One always wins out. What do you think they’ll prioritize? Hope I’m wrong. I know what he was alluding too and my statement didn’t contradict his position. When it comes down to it, him and many more pilots at JB will try to shoot down out QOL items because they don’t understand it. So yes, my statement is factual of what he said.
Oh, and don’t get involved in the union if you’re gonna compromise on the things that make this place great. Thanks.
We won’t get pay and QOL. One always wins out. What do you think they’ll prioritize? Hope I’m wrong. I know what he was alluding too and my statement didn’t contradict his position. When it comes down to it, him and many more pilots at JB will try to shoot down out QOL items because they don’t understand it. So yes, my statement is factual of what he said.
Oh, and don’t get involved in the union if you’re gonna compromise on the things that make this place great. Thanks.
His position wasn’t one of absolution. It was spirit qol items only benefit a small percentage and a compromise that costs less bargaining capital yet still allows a majority of the pilot group to use it and achieve its intended benefit is superior if it comes down to giving up contractual items that benefit 100% of the group.
01-10-2023, 06:49 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
If this place was so great we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in, hiring cfis and bleeding experience to other airlines including jb. Operationally a mess to the point where every person I know intending to stay for their career have apps out because they’re unhappy.
His position wasn’t one of absolution. It was spirit qol items only benefit a small percentage and a compromise that costs less bargaining capital yet still allows a majority of the pilot group to use it and achieve its intended benefit is superior if it comes down to giving up contractual items that benefit 100% of the group.
His position wasn’t one of absolution. It was spirit qol items only benefit a small percentage and a compromise that costs less bargaining capital yet still allows a majority of the pilot group to use it and achieve its intended benefit is superior if it comes down to giving up contractual items that benefit 100% of the group.
You don’t actually have to drop to 0 to get the full benefit of that benefit. Dropping trips you don’t want to have the days off that suit you is priceless in this 121 environment. Had something similar at my previous shop and as a junior guy, it was awesome having scheduling flexibility. My friends here at NK said the same. Buddy of mine got Christmas off and he’s been here less than a year. You just don’t get that anywhere else.
Anyways, I don’t see why this is even a debate. You go ahead and use to your advantage and tell me you’ll want to get rid of it lol
01-10-2023, 07:11 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 393
The same reason why JB, Frontier, Allegiant, Atlas, etc… leave for a legacy lol I didn’t say this place is perfect, no such thing. But JB definitely works harder and I’m looking for QOL. Hence my decision for NK.
You don’t actually have to drop to 0 to get the full benefit of that benefit. Dropping trips you don’t want to have the days off that suit you is priceless in this 121 environment. Had something similar at my previous shop and as a junior guy, it was awesome having scheduling flexibility. My friends here at NK said the same. Buddy of mine got Christmas off and he’s been here less than a year. You just don’t get that anywhere else.
Anyways, I don’t see why this is even a debate. You go ahead and use to your advantage and tell me you’ll want to get rid of it lol
You don’t actually have to drop to 0 to get the full benefit of that benefit. Dropping trips you don’t want to have the days off that suit you is priceless in this 121 environment. Had something similar at my previous shop and as a junior guy, it was awesome having scheduling flexibility. My friends here at NK said the same. Buddy of mine got Christmas off and he’s been here less than a year. You just don’t get that anywhere else.
Anyways, I don’t see why this is even a debate. You go ahead and use to your advantage and tell me you’ll want to get rid of it lol
The point was he wasn’t pay over qol and in favor of dropping all of spirits qol. His pov was pretty moderate and said he wasn’t willing to give up things that 100% of the group could benefit from in favor of something 5% would use. You can drop to 50hr which would be used by a much higher percentage of the entire group and still offers some qol benefit without giving as much capital to obtain.
01-10-2023, 07:23 PM
#109
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,333
The same reason why JB, Frontier, Allegiant, Atlas, etc… leave for a legacy lol I didn’t say this place is perfect, no such thing. But JB definitely works harder and I’m looking for QOL. Hence my decision for NK.
You don’t actually have to drop to 0 to get the full benefit of that benefit. Dropping trips you don’t want to have the days off that suit you is priceless in this 121 environment. Had something similar at my previous shop and as a junior guy, it was awesome having scheduling flexibility. My friends here at NK said the same. Buddy of mine got Christmas off and he’s been here less than a year. You just don’t get that anywhere else.
Anyways, I don’t see why this is even a debate. You go ahead and use to your advantage and tell me you’ll want to get rid of it lol
You don’t actually have to drop to 0 to get the full benefit of that benefit. Dropping trips you don’t want to have the days off that suit you is priceless in this 121 environment. Had something similar at my previous shop and as a junior guy, it was awesome having scheduling flexibility. My friends here at NK said the same. Buddy of mine got Christmas off and he’s been here less than a year. You just don’t get that anywhere else.
Anyways, I don’t see why this is even a debate. You go ahead and use to your advantage and tell me you’ll want to get rid of it lol
01-10-2023, 07:57 PM
#110
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,203
I’m pretty sure that many pilots at JetBlue don’t really understand DTZ, how to use it, what it is worth, and most grossly overestimate what it costs in negotiating capital. BUT THEY’VE NEVER HAD IT, SO THAT’S FAIRLY UNDERSTANDABLE. It’s called being naive - it doesn’t make them the enemy.
So if you want to keep it, let the MEC know how important it is to you, and educate your JB buds and have the NK MEC educate their MEC. We are all pilots so by definition we are sort of highly opinionated and arrogant people, but we are educable - most of us anyway.
So if you want to keep it, let the MEC know how important it is to you, and educate your JB buds and have the NK MEC educate their MEC. We are all pilots so by definition we are sort of highly opinionated and arrogant people, but we are educable - most of us anyway.
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