ATP still a requirement?
03-08-2023, 04:25 PM
#41
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
Most of the new FOs I've flown with are decent, some are sharp, and a few make me feel like I'm back in a 172 teaching Chinese students how to copy the ATIS. However I wouldn't let the majority of them land in any kind of weather, even those who aren't technically low time SIC status.
Anyone with less than 1000 hours turbine is low time in my book.
Anyone with less than 1000 hours turbine is low time in my book.
So if you’re flying with a new guy, not green, and he falls into the “majority you won’t let land”, are you taking landings from them if the conditions are not favorable??
Just curious, no judgement. Because we all have been in the position of “I wish he wouldn’t have this landing,” and I know we all play the “counting legs backwards” to avoid the new FO from landing down in Guatemala.
03-08-2023, 04:38 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 465
Honest question, curious.
So if you’re flying with a new guy, not green, and he falls into the “majority you won’t let land”, are you taking landings from them if the conditions are not favorable??
Just curious, no judgement. Because we all have been in the position of “I wish he wouldn’t have this landing,” and I know we all play the “counting legs backwards” to avoid the new FO from landing down in Guatemala.
So if you’re flying with a new guy, not green, and he falls into the “majority you won’t let land”, are you taking landings from them if the conditions are not favorable??
Just curious, no judgement. Because we all have been in the position of “I wish he wouldn’t have this landing,” and I know we all play the “counting legs backwards” to avoid the new FO from landing down in Guatemala.
03-08-2023, 05:03 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: baller, shot caller
Posts: 1,025
Honest question, curious.
So if you’re flying with a new guy, not green, and he falls into the “majority you won’t let land”, are you taking landings from them if the conditions are not favorable??
Just curious, no judgement. Because we all have been in the position of “I wish he wouldn’t have this landing,” and I know we all play the “counting legs backwards” to avoid the new FO from landing down in Guatemala.
So if you’re flying with a new guy, not green, and he falls into the “majority you won’t let land”, are you taking landings from them if the conditions are not favorable??
Just curious, no judgement. Because we all have been in the position of “I wish he wouldn’t have this landing,” and I know we all play the “counting legs backwards” to avoid the new FO from landing down in Guatemala.
Not happening
03-08-2023, 05:59 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 896
I'll either take the landing or just switch out legs entirely. I got burned once with a new FO who was fresh off of low time status but didn't have much turbine time before getting hired on. I would rather have them think that I'm an a-hole captain than put my certs on the line for them to learn how to land a 321 in a moderately challenging environment.
Not happening
Not happening
03-08-2023, 06:13 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 718
It’s one thing to be helping someone get acquainted with flying the airbus. It’s a whole other thing to be teaching someone literally everything about turbojets and air carrier operations at this level. Unless we are the new entry level job 
03-08-2023, 06:20 PM
#46
That/It/Thang
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,954
I'll either take the landing or just switch out legs entirely. I got burned once with a new FO who was fresh off of low time status but didn't have much turbine time before getting hired on. I would rather have them think that I'm an a-hole captain than put my certs on the line for them to learn how to land a 321 in a moderately challenging environment.
Not happening
Not happening
03-08-2023, 06:49 PM
#47
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,345
Not saying I haven't had to help/explain, but honestly surprised how well some of these FNGs are doing. Flown with a couple with less than 2K TT, 250 jet....
03-08-2023, 08:42 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,356
One of the biggest problem when I was newer to the 121 world (I’ve see. It here too) is when the CA says “just fly how you want too” during the brief and then proceeds to touch the FCU when vectored for the approach.
For clarification, the plane was never in an unsafe situation nor were we 30 miles out trying to slow to 180. It was simply a go-home leg or the CA was comfortable keep it faster because they have more experience in the jet.This is something that a lot of my friends encountered as well. This absolutely kills confidence and makes newer pilots second guess themselves for something as simple as calling for gear.
Also, no reason not to put 280 on the descent. Especially since VNAV descent planning is awful on the bus compared to other jets. I get it though, personal preference, no big deal.
For clarification, the plane was never in an unsafe situation nor were we 30 miles out trying to slow to 180. It was simply a go-home leg or the CA was comfortable keep it faster because they have more experience in the jet.This is something that a lot of my friends encountered as well. This absolutely kills confidence and makes newer pilots second guess themselves for something as simple as calling for gear.
Also, no reason not to put 280 on the descent. Especially since VNAV descent planning is awful on the bus compared to other jets. I get it though, personal preference, no big deal.
03-08-2023, 09:14 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 417
One of the biggest problem when I was newer to the 121 world (I’ve see. It here too) is when the CA says “just fly how you want too” during the brief and then proceeds to touch the FCU when vectored for the approach.
For clarification, the plane was never in an unsafe situation nor were we 30 miles out trying to slow to 180. It was simply a go-home leg or the CA was comfortable keep it faster because they have more experience in the jet.This is something that a lot of my friends encountered as well. This absolutely kills confidence and makes newer pilots second guess themselves for something as simple as calling for gear.
Also, no reason not to put 280 on the descent. Especially since VNAV descent planning is awful on the bus compared to other jets. I get it though, personal preference, no big deal.
For clarification, the plane was never in an unsafe situation nor were we 30 miles out trying to slow to 180. It was simply a go-home leg or the CA was comfortable keep it faster because they have more experience in the jet.This is something that a lot of my friends encountered as well. This absolutely kills confidence and makes newer pilots second guess themselves for something as simple as calling for gear.
Also, no reason not to put 280 on the descent. Especially since VNAV descent planning is awful on the bus compared to other jets. I get it though, personal preference, no big deal.
It works fine and might actually help someone new and behind the plane catch up a little and remove some tunnel vision instead of constantly changing speeds on the arrival or worrying about when to slow to 250.
03-09-2023, 07:56 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2022
Posts: 896
Some new guys that have no jet experience and god help them, the E170 guys have no idea about 3:1 math and how to half your GS into VS. This should not have to be taught.
The Perf page should not be the only thing people rely on for descent monitoring bc while it takes into account all the constraints it’s also watching the silly airbus pseudo waypoint which cannot be moved by the pilot and signifies when the airplane is planning to slow to Vapp. It’s often waaaay too far from the airport which is why we don’t typically fly in managed speed below 10k. US air space and approaches weren’t designed for this.
The Perf page should not be the only thing people rely on for descent monitoring bc while it takes into account all the constraints it’s also watching the silly airbus pseudo waypoint which cannot be moved by the pilot and signifies when the airplane is planning to slow to Vapp. It’s often waaaay too far from the airport which is why we don’t typically fly in managed speed below 10k. US air space and approaches weren’t designed for this.
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